Barnes TSX vs TBBC

[Fatback]

I have been shooting my new 375 H&H trying to get the best ammo grouping. It’s a Winchester model 70, safari classic. I’m down to the Barnes TSX and Federal Premium TBBC, both in 300 grain. I also shot some Barnes 300 grain banded solids out of it today. Both of the Barnes loads hit the same at 50 yards. The solids were about 1.5 inches lower and 1.5 inches right of the TSXs at 100 yards. Is that normal for solids vs expandables at that range? I have some federal premium bonded sledgehammer solids in the way and will try them as well. The TSXs and TBBC both group the same so based on everybody’s experience, which would be the better choice as far as expandables for Cape buffalo and PG? I’m trying to pair a solid with an expandable that I can use in conjunction with each other. I’ll know what the sledgehammers do once I get them. I know this is a bit rambling so I hope I’m making sense. I would appreciate hearing about people experiences. Thanks

 

[BeeMaa]

If you are happy with the accuracy of the TSX and TBBC, pick one and stick with it. Solids on DG will be used at less than 20 yards, so it's not a huge deal. The only sticking point is if you wanted to use a solid on one of the T10 antelope, then you will either need a cheat sheet or something that shoots identical to your softs. I've seen solids and softs shoot to the same POI but it takes a little experimentation.

As for your choice of bullets...you have chosen very well.

For solids also check out the Woodleigh Hydro and CEB Safari Solids. You can have them custom loaded by Safari Arms Ltd. (link below) or there are a few other places that offer these types of services.

https://www.safariarms.com/

 

[Fatback]

BeeMaa, Thanks for the info. Not really interested in hunting the tiny 10 at this point but that info is good to have. The solids will be used on DG, I think I’m going to stick with the TSXs simply because they seem to be more readily available than the TBBCs. I’ve just always been a fan of Federal Premium cartridges and this is my first experience with Barnes cartridges. I’m hoping to shoot a deer or pig with them in the next few weeks to see actual performance on game.

 

[Inline6]

Unless you are hunting elephant, you will probably never have a true need for a solid. At one time it was required, that was before current bullet technology. With the TBBC, Swift, and TSX line you are good to go as long as they shoot well in your rifle.

 

[375Fox]

Last year in Zimbabwe was first time I used TBBCs. I was extremely impressed. I think they performed better than swift A frames. The outfitter asked me not to use TSX because of possible over penetration. These were recovered from a kudu. One from 75 yards (right) and one from several feet (left). What impressed me was the performance at full muzzle velocity but was still found against skin on opposite side like other bullet. They did not pass through buffalo either, but unfortunately skinner didn’t make an effort to search for any of the bullets. I wouldn’t worry about your grouping on solids. If you use them on buffalo it will be well inside a 100 yards.

 

[Fatback]

375Fox,

Looks like the TBBC did well for you. I have shot 200 grain TBBC out of my 300-win mag for years and they have performed very well on game up to and including moose and brown bear so that was my thinking on getting them for my new 375.

I am curious about your PH's concern of the TSX "over penetrating." I am assuming he would prefer for there not to be an exit wound and that all of the energy get left in the animal, like you showed with the TBBC in your kudu. Did he have those concerns related to just PG or were you hunting any DG, like buffalo or hippo, etc...?

 

[Fatback]

Unless you are hunting elephant, you will probably never have a true need for a solid. At one time it was required, that was before current bullet technology. With the TBBC, Swift, and TSX line you are good to go as long as they shoot well in your rifle.

The TSXs shoot 3 shot groups that are all touching, in the bullseye. There may be a different round that could do better but if there is, it would be wasted on me as the results of the TSXs are as good as I can shoot. I had almost the same performance with the TBBCs.

I just wanted to try some solids as well and at 50 yards the Barnes solids were hitting identical to the TSXs and TBBC out to 100 yards is where they lost some of the grouping, which after a bit of research is not that uncommon. The TBBCs and the TSXs were grouping the same at 100 yards as well. I'd feel comfortable using them interchangeably at 100 yards. I think I am going to try the Federal Premium sledgehammer solids and see how they do next. As is stand right now, I am going to probably stick with the Barnes TSX and solids since they seem to be a bit easier to acquire right now. I will probably stock up on those. Thanks for the input.

 

[375Fox]

375Fox,

Looks like the TBBC did well for you. I have shot 200 grain TBBC out of my 300-win mag for years and they have performed very well on game up to and including moose and brown bear so that was my thinking on getting them for my new 375.

I am curious about your PH's concern of the TSX "over penetrating." I am assuming he would prefer for there not to be an exit wound and that all of the energy get left in the animal, like you showed with the TBBC in your kudu. Did he have those concerns related to just PG or were you hunting any DG, like buffalo or hippo, etc...?

Their concern with over penetration was buffalo in herd and wounding a second animal. TBBC and Swift A Frame reliably don’t exit large game. I took 11 animals that trip buffalo, roan, sable, eland, kudu, a few more.

 

[Tgood1]

Reach out to your ph and get his opinion and please post the reply, curious to what his opinion is

 

[BeeMaa]

Their concern with over penetration was buffalo in herd and wounding a second animal. TBBC and Swift A Frame reliably don’t exit large game. I took 11 animals that trip buffalo, roan, sable, eland, kudu, a few more.

I get it, the premium softs expand but also have excellent penetration. I'm speaking specifically about the Swift A-Frame, Federal TBBC, Norma Oryx and Barnes TSX/TTSX. However...the only way to insure you don't shoot another animal beyond the one you are aiming at is to make sure there isn't one behind it.

I took 9 head of PG with 375H&H 300 grain Swift A-Frames and only 4 bullets were recovered from 2 animals. The bullets did their job and downed the animals quickly, but over-penetration is not a problem limited only to solids. Be sure of your target and what lies beyond it. One of the top 5 rules of firearm safety.

 

[Inline6]

I get it, the premium softs expand but also have excellent penetration. I'm speaking specifically about the Swift A-Frame, Federal TBBC, Norma Oryx and Barnes TSX/TTSX. However...the only way to insure you don't shoot another animal beyond the one you are aiming at is to make sure there isn't one behind it.

I took 9 head of PG with 375H&H 300 grain Swift A-Frames and only 4 bullets were recovered from 2 animals. The bullets did their job and downed the animals quickly, but over-penetration is not a problem limited only to solids. Be sure of your target and what lies beyond it. One of the top 5 rules of firearm safety.
View attachment 506119

Same experience here the only PG that retained the bullet was an Eland. All other PG was a through and through, including a zebra just inside of 300 yards.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Ever since Federal started loading Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets in their “Premium” line of ammunition since 1993… I’ve been using their 300Gr T.B.B.C. factory load for almost all of my African hunting purposes. I’ll safely venture to say that I’ve successfully shot more Cape buffalo with 300Gr Federal T.B.B.C. factory loads than any other bullet in existence. All were one shot kills.

The Barnes T.S.X. is also an exceptionally reliable bullet. I’ve successfully shot two Cape buffalo and my most recent hippopotamus with the 300Gr variant. However, I would personally not use the Barnes T.S.X bullet for hunting lions and leopards. Being an all-copper monolithic bullet, it expands comparatively slowly (except at very high velocities). This year, my white hunter and I were discussing about the most suitable bullet designs for African dangerous game. He informed me that a disturbingly high number of lions and leopards (especially the ones that are shot on bait) which are shot with all copper monolithic bullets (such as the Barnes T.S.X.) invariably need to be followed up and shot while charging.

 

[375Fox]

I get it, the premium softs expand but also have excellent penetration. I'm speaking specifically about the Swift A-Frame, Federal TBBC, Norma Oryx and Barnes TSX/TTSX. However...the only way to insure you don't shoot another animal beyond the one you are aiming at is to make sure there isn't one behind it.

I took 9 head of PG with 375H&H 300 grain Swift A-Frames and only 4 bullets were recovered from 2 animals. The bullets did their job and downed the animals quickly, but over-penetration is not a problem limited only to solids. Be sure of your target and what lies beyond it. One of the top 5 rules of firearm safety.
View attachment 506119

My post was intended to be about buffalo not plains game. I’ve taken buffalo, eland, giraffe with swift A frames without exiting. I’ve taken Buffalo and Eland with TBBC without exiting. They did not exit either kudu too but I wouldn’t count on it or with any plains game. Shooting buffalo in group/herd with other buffalo behind seems to be an acceptable practice. In the early season I can see situations where you have no option to verify what is behind your buffalo. In Mozambique Zambezi delta shooting buffalo from large herds with multiple buffalo behind your buffalo appears standard practice. If it can be avoided, I think it should be, but in situations where it may be necessary to be successful, I’d like to have a bullet I trust not to pass through.

 

[Fatback]

Hunter-Habib,

on your most recent hippo you shot with the Barnes TSX, was that a brain shot while in the water or a heart/lung shot on land? I am hoping to hunt hippo on land as well as Cape buffalo. I’m interested in hearing about bullet performance on your hippo. Shot placement, shot angle, penetration, etc… Thanks

 

[Fatback]

375 Fox,

Outside of the concern of a pass through hitting another animal I don’t see the downside of a complete pass through. I will readily admit that I am far from an expert though. If there are other downsides I’d like to know what they could be.

If the TSXs are getting that much penetration then I could see the benefit of that if a buffalo offered up a strait on or quartering to shot.

I appreciate all the info related to other hunter’s experiences. Thanks and keep ‘em coming

 

[CJW]

375 Fox,

Outside of the concern of a pass through hitting another animal I don’t see the downside of a complete pass through. I will readily admit that I am far from an expert though. If there are other downsides I’d like to know what they could be.

If the TSXs are getting that much penetration then I could see the benefit of that if a buffalo offered up a strait on or quartering to shot.

I appreciate all the info related to other hunter’s experiences. Thanks and keep ‘em coming

I would be concerned as to why the TSX is passing through so often. We know that it isn't likely shedding weight with just the base exiting. In many accounts they fail to expand and go on to exit the animal. This is evidenced by minimal internal damage. I think it's a great concept for a bullet but I believe they're a hair overbuilt. I believe this was the reasoning for the TTSX but I don't believe they offer them in large bore varieties. Maybe someone could correct me. I think a company like CEB has it correct with a bullet that shears it's petals.

 

[375Fox]

375 Fox,

Outside of the concern of a pass through hitting another animal I don’t see the downside of a complete pass through. I will readily admit that I am far from an expert though. If there are other downsides I’d like to know what they could be.

If the TSXs are getting that much penetration then I could see the benefit of that if a buffalo offered up a strait on or quartering to shot.

I appreciate all the info related to other hunter’s experiences. Thanks and keep ‘em coming

On most animals I’d prefer a pass through for a blood trail. This was what my outfitter explained to me when I asked on TSX for that particular buffalo hunt. Ndumo Safaris has at least several posts here recommending TSX for big game and they are highly experienced.

 

[Ridgewalker]

JME&O, but I have taken only one buffalo and used the 300 TSX. It was slightly quartering away. It did not fully penetrate, but I made certain one of the others was not behind it. I was underwhelmed at the expansion (lack there of ie). Research the reports under bullet performance in the title here. You will see the 300 TSX barely expands more than the major bullet diameter.
I also took bushbuck, sable, and several other animals on that same trip. All one shot kills except the buffalo which on DG I believe you keep shooting until it is down and confirmed dead. Even a spinal safety shot once down on DG is usually taken.
That said if you get a pass through and wound another animal you will likely be buying a second trophy.
Top bullets in my opinion and in order best to worst would be North Fork, TBBC, A-frame and then TSX. The TSX is an excellent penetrator as it was designed for that, but it lacks the expansion characteristics of the others.
I believe you will be happy with the results of any of these though.

 

[Philip Glass]

BeeMaa, Thanks for the info. Not really interested in hunting the tiny 10 at this point but that info is good to have. The solids will be used on DG, I think I’m going to stick with the TSXs simply because they seem to be more readily available than the TBBCs. I’ve just always been a fan of Federal Premium cartridges and this is my first experience with Barnes cartridges. I’m hoping to shoot a deer or pig with them in the next few weeks to see actual performance on game.

If you use TSX (ive not hunted with Federal) there is no need for solids unless you plan to hunt elephant or the tinies. Solids for buffalo followup is old news if you shoot TSX.

 

[Fatback]

Phillip,

What about hippo? TSX adequate or solids for hippo, especially on land heart/lung shot placement? Based on research and feedback, the TSX should be sufficient for buff without any solid follow up. The TBBC may require a solid back up on buff, still looking into that.