Attempted Robbery at Africa Sky Guesthouse

[wesheltonj]

What is going on around the JNB airport? I am glad I saw a little of Jo'berg and Pretoria, because its now Intercontinental or City Lodge only and ever leaving the airport. And its not really not safe either.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_R...empton_Park_Greater_Johannesburg_Gauteng.html

wayneg265
Columbia, South Carolina
11
Reviewed 4 weeks ago
South Africa B&B
This was my second stay and they have nice rooms with very good service and food. My only complaint is that 3 thugs attempted to break in to my room at 3pm through a window and the door. If I were not already awake I fear the worse could have happened. This establishment needs a panic button system in all their rooms as there a no phones in the rooms either.

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• Stayed: August 2017, traveled solo
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Review collected in partnership with this hotel

 

[siml]

Unfortunately crime is totally out of control in SA. Until we get a new government in charge, it's just going to get worse.

 

[lwaters]

They know hunters carry a lot of cash. It would happen here if certain people knew you had a lot of money on you.

 

[Brent in Az]

Anybody point the business end of a hunting rifle at them as they tried to come thru the window?

 

[BRICKBURN]

I’d bet that might cause a reaction

 

[edward]

i keep waiting for good news about going to africa but all news seems to get worse and worse instead of things getting easier and less complicated,now we have attempted robberys?what else is coming?

 

[wesheltonj]

Anybody point the business end of a hunting rifle at them as they tried to come thru the window?

When I stayed there, they kept my gun in their gun room. My understanding is that a security guard came to help and the police were called and showed up. The robbers did have a knife and claimed to have a gun.

i keep waiting for good news about going to africa but all news seems to get worse and worse instead of things getting easier and less complicated,now we have attempted robberys?what else is coming?

More Robbery.

 

[JimP]

Anybody point the business end of a hunting rifle at them as they tried to come thru the window?

I have seen what happens here in the states when this happens, I would hate to think what would happen in a foreign country if you pulled a weapon on someone.

I think that I would just stay in a more secure location.

For those that have been to South Africa you know that there is security personal all over the place. From the grocery stores to the parking lots. Perhaps African Sky Guesthouse needs a few more to make the guest feel safer.

 

[Brent in Az]

I have seen what happens here in the states when this happens, I would hate to think what would happen in a foreign country if you pulled a weapon on someone.

I think that I would just stay in a more secure location.

For those that have been to South Africa you know that there is security personal all over the place. From the grocery stores to the parking lots. Perhaps African Sky Guesthouse needs a few more to make the guest feel safer.

I guess I might be a little confused?
Is a foreigner in Africa, with a legal gun permit, allowed to use deadly force to defend themselves from armed robbery?.

I realize Africa is a different beast, but here in AZ, we have a "stand your ground" law. I have no idea how things work in Africa.?

 

[lwaters]

When I was there in August there was a lot of police presence in and around the airport. A black driver picked us up and about two hours into the drive the police stopped him and fined him a 100 rand for speeding. Funny everybody was passing him

 

[JimP]

I guess I might be a little confused?
Is a foreigner in Africa, with a legal gun permit, allowed to use deadly force to defend themselves from armed robbery?.

I realize Africa is a different beast, but here in AZ, we have a "stand your ground" law. I have no idea how things work in Africa.?

I have no idea of how it works in South Africa and I really don't want to have to find out.

Even here in Colorado where we have the "Make My Day" law on the books, you are still usually taken into custody and questioned numerous times before you are finally released to go on your way. I'm sure that Arizona is about the same.

 

[wesheltonj]

I guess I might be a little confused?
Is a foreigner in Africa, with a legal gun permit, allowed to use deadly force to defend themselves from armed robbery?.

I realize Africa is a different beast, but here in AZ, we have a "stand your ground" law. I have no idea how things work in Africa.?

I have no idea about the laws of RSA, perhaps @riflepermits.com can let us know. Nor do I know the laws of AZ. However, most of the "stand your ground" laws are a defense to prosecution and NOT a bar to prosecution. Big difference and an expensive one too.

 

[IdaRam]

I can't remember where I read it, but I recall reading somewhere that use of a firearm for self defense against another human being is not allowed in SA. Defend your life all you want against 4 legged animals, but not the 2 legged kind. Don't quote me on that as I may have read it on the internet
Also, although a bit of a tangent here, the reason you must have an optical sight of some kind on a handgun for temporary importation for hunting is that SAPS believes if it has a scope you will be using it for hunting. If it just has open sights you may be bringing it for self defense.
Also, for residents of SA I understand that self defense is not a valid motivation for a gun permit.
These are just what I've read or been told, so take with a grain of salt, but I think I'm pretty close to having it correct.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I guess I might be a little confused?
Is a foreigner in Africa, with a legal gun permit, allowed to use deadly force to defend themselves from armed robbery?.

I realize Africa is a different beast, but here in AZ, we have a "stand your ground" law. I have no idea how things work in Africa.?

The law in South Africa is not the same.

An article on the subject.

In order to determine the lawfulness of a defensive action, the courts apply the ‘reasonable man’ test – the question is whether a reasonable man in the same position would have done the same thing.

The following five factors are important:

1. The attack must be unlawful.
2. The attack must be imminent or already underway.
3. The attack must not be complete (it’s not self-defense if you shoot someone after the attack is over.)
4. The defensive action must be directed only against the attacker.
5. The defensive action must be proportionate to the circumstances (property value and the instrument used in the attack are key considerations.)

It may seem a little vague but if you follow the above guidelines and keep your actions within the principles of self-defense, you should be safe from legal repercussions.

For example: if you wake up in the middle of the night to find a stranger in your house and you shoot him immediately – and it turns out he did not have a weapon, you are going to find yourself in some trouble with the law.

If you shoot him and he did have a firearm – but he was never even aware of you, you’ll still be in hot water.

You cannot shoot the unsuspecting thief on the premise that if you confront him he would harm you – the preemptive strike principle is not applicable in private defense cases.

If the intruder has a knife (or screwdriver etc.) you will only be justified in shooting him if he attempts to stab someone – if he is just standing there holding a knife then shooting him could be judged to be disproportionate use of force.

It could be argued that the fact that an armed intruder is inside your home is enough threat to justify the use of lethal force against him – but there is no law clearly stating this precedent and each case would be judged on its own merits.

An important rule of thumb to keep in mind is that your property is not worth more than an intruder’s life – only shoot when your own or someone else’s life or physical safety is threatened.

So if the intruder is hot footing it across your lawn with your flat screen TV under one arm, it would not be considered justifiable to shot him because your life is nolonger in danger (it’s not self-defense if you shoot someone after the attack is over.)
http://northcoastcourier.co.za/69069/when-is-shooting-an-intruder-self-defense/

 

[edward]

guess the 3 s's rule dosent apply here.

 

[Brent in Az]

That is a big difference from AZ. Here, if someone breaks into my house, I can shoot them, doesn't matter if they are armed or not.

 

[edward]

thats the way it should be.

 

[Edge]

Stayed on two seperate occasions @ AfricaSky this summer and felt comfortably safe. I do remember checking out the grounds and what appeared to be electrified wire running around the perimeter wall.

I wonder how they gained entry and what measures are now in place to prevent a similar incident?

My wife and I really enjoyed our stays at Africa Sky and planned on staying there again upon our return to Africa next year.

Edge

 

[Brent in Az]

But if they are running away with my flat screen, I will do my best Clay Matthews impersonation. LOL.

 

[wesheltonj]

That is a big difference from AZ. Here, if someone breaks into my house, I can shoot them, doesn't matter if they are armed or not.

I just quickly looked up AZ law and its a defense to prosecution and NOT a bar to prosecution law. Your right you can shoot them and the DA can still charge you and a jury can still convict you and you will be broke from defense costs.

However, most Grand Juries out west would most likely "No Bill" you. But just remember a good prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich.