Another Vintage Cogswell & Harrison 404 Jeffery - Questions

[buckstix]

Another Vintage Cogswell & Harrison 404 Jeffery - Questions

Hello all,

I've got some questions about another Vintage Cogswell & Harrison in 404 Jeffery. This is simlar to the one posted by Gert Odendaal ("Vintage 404 Jeffery Opinions") except in much better condition, and it still has its original stock.

One question that I would have is: Since the bottom metal is aluminum, (just like the one in Gert's post) what would the date be when Cogswell & Harrison built these guns? These 2 rifles are only about 3000 serial number apart with this one being a lower number 63,000 (older) that Gert's 66,000. (newer)

I'm guessing they were built in the 1950's, but have no hard evidence other than I don't think Aluminum was used for bottom metal before then. Does anyone know for sure, or have an opinion?

Here are some pics of the rifle:

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Wish I could help you buckstix, I also wish I owned that beauty! But I fail on both counts.

 

[spike.t]

hi @buckstix can you be a bit more specific with the ser no , or is it actually 63000? as i can ask someone who will probably know

 

[buckstix]

hi buckstix can you be a bit more specific with the ser no , or is it actually 63000? as i can ask someone who will probably know

Hello spike.t,

No, my serial number is 634xx. I don't like putting the serial number in a public forum, I had problems once. But I'll share it with you in a PM which has been sent.

As I indicated, the serial number of the other C&H rifle was 665xx and is an identical match to my rifle. So, I'm thinking perhaps both were made in the same order for the Rhodesian Game Department. I also have a 10.75x68 cal Type B Mauser that was used by the Rhodesian Wardens.

Any help you can provide would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[spike.t]

@buckstix got it. and i picked up a copy of dec magnum before heading to the farm ,and there was an article on the 10.75x68 in it

 

[buckstix]

Hello spike.t

Thank you in advance for any help.

Would you have an opinion on manufacturing date based on the features of the rifle?

 

[spike.t]

nope i havent a clue but the person i sent them to knows most english rifle makers no in his head

 

[buckstix]

Thank you so much.

I can't wait for your reply.

A rifle's History means so much to me.

 

[Red Leg]

I have a C&H in 318 WR built on a P-14 action which I have always assumed was a between the wars rifle (couldn't imagine them using the P-14 post war). I believe yours is as well? Mine has a serial number of 591xx. Styling is quite similar other than a bit slimmer stock (as one would expect on s .318) and an ebony cap. The lovely shaping at the pistol grip is identical. Making an elegant rifle out of a P-14 is no small achievement. I have been meaning to order "Cogswell & Harrison Two Centuries of Gunmaking" by Graham Cooley & John Newton. This book covers the history of Cogswell & Harrison from 1770 – 1993 and I would assume has a serial range number chart. Though on British rifles in particular, serial numbered components (for C&H rifles - the barrels) could lie around and get used out of order. I do not know if that is the case for C&H. Also Cogswell & Harrison re-launched in Ireland a couple of years ago and will provide a certificate on their guns and rifles for a fee (as I remember, for a lot less than Colt!)

 

[buckstix]

Hello Red Leg,

Thanks for the reply.

This rifle was built on a P-17 action, either a Winchester or Eddystone, based on the "filled well" on top of the rear bridge.

Does your rifle also have a "filled well" and aluminum bottom metal?

 

[Red Leg]

Probably actually a P-14 - technically the same rifle, but built by Remington (and Eddystone) or Winchester in .303 to supply the British Army until we declared war and production went over to the P-17 in 30 '06. The original design was created by Vickers I believe. Relatively few were issued, and they would be the likely actions available after the war to the trade in the UK. And yes mine has had its ears trimmed and the well perfectly filled like yours. Interestingly, mine has also had the cut-out on the left side of the action filled as well. It also has aluminum bottom metal. As Art Alpin proved with A-Square, the P-17 will handle almost anything - in a really ugly package. It is amazing to me how the Brits could turn even the P-14/17 into an elegant rifle.

You have me curious and I just shot a note off to the new C&H - looks like a L50 inquiry. Will let you know what I find out.

 

[buckstix]

Hello Red Leg,

Thanks for your reply.

Please let me know what you find out.

 

[ZG47]

buckstix

Beautiful rifle and great pictures. Thank you very much for sharing with us.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Buckstixx, congratulations, it is a beautiful rifle, you have a talent of finding these great old stalwarts...enjoy this rifle ....

Gert

 

[buckstix]

Hello Gert Odendaal,

Thanks for the reply.

Now I'm hopinng to find some history.

 

[Red Leg]

So I found a copy of the Cooley Newton book. Lots of pictures and darn little information. The bolt rifles are barely mentioned and most discussion is around the "Certus" rifle which was a pre-WWI proprietary design (and a pretty awful one - I have a .450). No serial number list at all. Haven't heard anything back from the email inquiry.

 

[Wheels]

Thanks for sharing the post and the photos buckstix.

The cumulative knowledge (or ability to access it) we have in our little community never ceases to amaze me.

 

[buckstix]

Hello Wheels,

Thanks for the reply.

Hello Red Leg,

Thanks for the reply.

Detail examination of my rifle shows that it was originally a P-14 Eddystone. What I find most interesting is the "thumb cut" in the left receiver wall.
It serves no purpose other than cosmetic to replicate the "look" of a 98 Mauser. The only other explaination would be that the thumb-cut it was intended to add finger clearance to aid in pushing cartridges into the magazine box from above. It could not have been for loading from a stripper clip because if you place a cartridge into the existing stripper clip slot cut-out in the top of the rear receiver ring, the cartridge is far too long. The front of the cartridge hangs over the front ring by about 1/2". In order to load the cartridges into the magazine box, you have to tuck them back "under" rear receiver ring.

I have found several similar C&H rifles in 404 caliber while searching google for information, but none of them had the thumb cut. However, a C&H catalog picture of the rifle from the 1950's that I found, does show his feature, so it was not an after market alteration. (see below) You can see it if you look closely. The thumb cut is there in the receiver, but just as with my rifle, the wood of the stock is not cut around it.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Hello Buckstix.
Beautiful rifle in my favorite for dangerous game caliber. Congrats.
I envy you.
Witold

 

[buckstix]

Hello Witold

Thanks for the reply.

I was told it came from an African Game Department. Now if only I could find some detaied history about its use.