Ammunition Regulation?

[Daniel Cary]

This is a very novice question, but that's why I'm here.

Can someone explain the importance of one's desired ammunition to the correlation of your battery ..
ie, "The 500 J (bought 2nd hand) was regulated with 600 grn soft/solids @ 2100 fps. at 50 yards" .. I wonder why & does this make the rifle less accurate with 570 grn Normas?

A lot of doubles are regulated with Kynoch before delivery. Does this make them less accurate with a different Factory load, or customs by Superior, Hendershot, etc?

Thank you.

 

[gillettehunter]

The experts will be along in a bit to answer in more detail, but maybe I can lay some groundwork. Many rifles in general "like" or shoot best with one particular load. Changing any component ie bullet, brass, powder or primer can and does change the point of impact. Some bolt rifles with custom barrels in particular will shoot very well with almost any load.
With doubles you are trying to get 2 barrels to shoot to the same point of impact.To do so they are "regulated". Meaning they adjust the barrels into alignment to shoot to the same or similar point of aim with a particular ammo load. Change any component and it might drastically affect how closely they pattern. Some doubles are VERY particular. Others are more forgiving.
All you can do is try another load and see if it meets your accuracy standards. You might get lucky and you might not. Good luck.
Bruce

 

[zephyr]

Ciongrats on your purchase ....
For a Bolt Gun which I am assuming is your 500J it means that the Rear sight and leafs if it has any was filed in for the mentioned load

 

[Daniel Cary]

Ciongrats on your purchase ....
For a Bolt Gun which I am assuming is your 500J it means that the Rear sight and leafs if it has any was filed in for the mentioned load

Really ..
Thank you, I've had it for some time now, however, that's the only ammo I've used out it this far & it's certainly dialed in.

I'd never thought the actual sights were tailored to the original owners load spec's ..
Thank you ...

 

[zephyr]

Had a 505 built for me filed the sights in for a 525gr CEB Solid 2300fps at 30yrds

 

[zephyr]

Let me explain why 30yrds..... With an Iron sighted gun the bullet leaves the barrel approx .5"s below line of sight, My Rear sight is filed in at 30yrds, with my load this is where the bullet first crosses the line of sight on the way up in it's trajectory path. With this load the bullet stays within a caliber width (.505"s) above the line of sight untill approx 105 yards then falls below line of sight this according to the JBM Trajectory web sight. So I started with a rough shaped Rear sight and shot and filed until the gun was shooting POA at 30 yards the Rear sight was then finished and Blued by the Gunsmith

 

[Rare Breed]

The experts will be along in a bit to answer in more detail, but maybe I can lay some groundwork. Many rifles in general "like" or shoot best with one particular load. Changing any component ie bullet, brass, powder or primer can and does change the point of impact. Some bolt rifles with custom barrels in particular will shoot very well with almost any load.
With doubles you are trying to get 2 barrels to shoot to the same point of impact.To do so they are "regulated". Meaning they adjust the barrels into alignment to shoot to the same or similar point of aim with a particular ammo load. Change any component and it might drastically affect how closely they pattern. Some doubles are VERY particular. Others are more forgiving.
All you can do is try another load and see if it meets your accuracy standards. You might get lucky and you might not. Good luck.
Bruce

No more expertise needed. You covered it

 

[Daniel Cary]

Let me explain why 30yrds..... With an Iron sighted gun the bullet leaves the barrel approx .5"s below line of sight, My Rear sight is filed in at 30yrds, with my load this is where the bullet first crosses the line of sight on the way up in it's trajectory path. With this load the bullet stays within a caliber width (.505"s) above the line of sight untill approx 105 yards then falls below line of sight this according to the JBM Trajectory web sight. So I started with a rough shaped Rear sight and shot and filed until the gun was shooting POA at 30 yards the Rear sight was then finished and Blued by the Gunsmith

No, that certainly summed it up. Thank you.

 

[mark-hunter]

Can someone explain the importance of one's desired ammunition to the correlation of your battery ..
ie, "The 500 J (bought 2nd hand) was regulated with 600 grn soft/solids @ 2100 fps. at 50 yards" .. I wonder why & does this make the rifle less accurate with 570 grn Normas?

My 375 H/H bolt action, has 8 cm higher point of impact with PPU 300 grain SP, then from Swifta A frame by Norma, same weight 300 grain , which prints 8 cm lower at 100 meters.

While any scope on any bolt action you can be adjusted by zeroing, iron sights are as they are, and I regulated them to Norma swift a frame at 50 meters.
Regulation of iron sights is done, mostly by filing the rear sight, or replacing the front sights of various heights, while testing on paper target. Once done, then is fixed.

For double rifles regulation and barrel harmonics are even more delicate, because gunsmith must regulate two barrels to print in same point of impact with one set of iron sights. (so scope adjustement does not work, like it can on bolt action, single barrel rifle).

Try to search on internet, regulating double barrels, whipping effect, barrel harmonics. you will get idea.

Dangerous game ammunition - respectable factories try to produce soft points (or bonded soft points) with same weight, velocity and shape, as their solids, in order to mimic same barrel harmonics with different ammo, in same gun, in case change of ammo is required (soft point to solid and vice versa). Check hornady DG line for example.
Other solution is reloading for individuals. But sometimes even that is not enough and older double rifles will sometimes need to be regulated again by gunsmith for modern ammo.

 

[Daniel Cary]

My 375 H/H bolt action, has 8 cm higher point of impact with PPU 300 grain SP, then from Swifta A frame by Norma, same weight 300 grain , which prints 8 cm lower at 100 meters.

While any scope on any bolt action you can be adjusted by zeroing, iron sights are as they are, and I regulated them to Norma swift a frame at 50 meters.
Regulation of iron sights is done, mostly by filing the rear sight, or replacing the front sights of various heights, while testing on paper target. Once done, then is fixed.

For double rifles regulation and barrel harmonics are even more delicate, because gunsmith must regulate two barrels to print in same point of impact with one set of iron sights. (so scope adjustement does not work, like it can on bolt action, single barrel rifle).

Try to search on internet, regulating double barrels, whipping effect, barrel harmonics. you will get idea.

Dangerous game ammunition - respectable factories try to produce soft points (or bonded soft points) with same weight, velocity and shape, as their solids, in order to mimic same barrel harmonics with different ammo, in same gun, in case change of ammo is required (soft point to solid and vice versa). Check hornady DG line for example.
Other solution is reloading for individuals. But sometimes even that is not enough and older double rifles will sometimes need to be regulated again by gunsmith for modern ammo.

Another good point, or example with a scoped rifle .. adjust accordingly.

The .500 bolt's here are iron's only. A 100 yard shot is far, imo (for me at least). @zephyr Assuming you regulated the .505 CEB's to give you accuracy closer than 50 yards, simply.

 

[Daniel Cary]

And .. in theory, contrary to what this .500 was built for .. I'm assuming the outcome will be significantly different if I were to run ie, Norma 540's @ two hundered fps faster @ 50 yards.

 

[Daniel Cary]

@Backyardsniper .. I think you had the Brown Bear 500 J?
if you can help .. ?

Thank you.

 

[Backyardsniper]

@Backyardsniper .. I think you had the Brown Bear 500 J?
if you can help .. ?

Thank you.

Yeah man. Let me check my notes. I may even still have some stuff up on my dry erase board down stairs for it.

 

[Daniel Cary]

Yeah man. Let me check my notes. I may even still have some stuff up on my dry erase board down stairs for it.

Is there a particular or preferred Load that works best with this Brown Bear?
The only thing I used (shooting @ Cans. not targets) were Norma's 540grn @ 2400 fps. 10 rounds at most .. however, unless it's me or the recoil, I don't think I hit anything with the Sako.

Thank you.

 

[Backyardsniper]

The Sakos are generally the very accurate, the one I had that @Flewis now owns was a real tack driver. I think I still have the load data for it. I shot hornady as well as CEB and some Norma. The 570's shot good in mine as well as the lighter 525 CEB. I killed a small doe with the CEB at 100 yards with a Red dot. I HIGHLY recommend putting an RMR on it if you have a mount that will work. Is your rifle a brown bear? If so I can send you a link for the propper mount that fits the scope base

 

[Daniel Cary]

The Sakos are generally the very accurate, the one I had that @Flewis now owns was a real tack driver. I think I still have the load data for it. I shot hornady as well as CEB and some Norma. The 570's shot good in mine as well as the lighter 525 CEB. I killed a small doe with the CEB at 100 yards with a Red dot. I HIGHLY recommend putting an RMR on it if you have a mount that will work. Is your rifle a brown bear? If so I can send you a link for the propper mount that fits the scope base

That would be well appreciated "when/if you get a chance" regarding the RMR ..

Addl: glad you mentioned the Raptors .. I was curious the Grain.
Thank you.