577 BPE Loading Help

[Dholupko]

I'm new to the site and hopeful to received some direction from those that have been there before. I just returned from the SCI Show and left with my check book empty and two double rifles on the way to me. This is a life long dream and I'm excited to dive in. One of the rifles is a 470NE and I have ammo for it. The other is a 577 BPE and it is regulated to the 570 grain bullet. It is a 1890's gun with steel barrels. I do not have dies or components for it though I checked my powder reserves and found RL-15 and IMR 4198 so I think I'm ok there.

I need dies, brass and bullets. I'm old enough to understand that you get what you pay for in this life so I'm not looking to go cheap but that doesn't mean I want to be $ foolish.

Can you recommend dies, brass and bullets? I know some of this stuff is hard to get right now so that might pose a challenge. I want to practice with both of these rifles for a year and then make a trip to Africa for a Buffalo, or two.

Maybe a stupid question but are .577 BPE dies the same as .577 NE dies? I don't want to buy the wrong ones.

I see several brass suppliers with grossly varying prices. It seems to be the difference between drawn brass and machined brass. Can you lend some insight as to the pros and cons of both?

Thank you in advance. I appreciate all of your help.

 

[nztimb]

Giday Dholupko and welcome to the A H forums. While I cant answer your questions, you have joined the best informed forum on the planet so someone will be along to give you authorative information you need. Congratulations on the new double rifles.

 

[Sarg]

Well done on your visit to SCI bud, those could be some interesting rifles right there, I recently bought .470NE brass & dies myself but have no rifle & not sure if I ever will get a .470 lol

I had a .577BPE or two myself, & have dies & cases for that to, you will need to find out what load your rifle takes, what length chambers, eg .577 2 3/4 in or 3in, get a supply of either cast lead or Woodleigh BPE rated bullets (could be hard to find & get worse later) or maybe Hawk Bullets (again hard now I think) .

I see you say steel barrels, that is good but it is still a soft steel so not really rated for NE bullets that you "might" use on a buffalo if that is what you were thinking ?

I have been after a nice TL Hammerless .577 for many years myself, could you tell us a little more about your rifle & maybe some photos please ?

 

[HWL]

The other is a 577 BPE and it is regulated to the 570 grain bullet. It is a 1890's gun with steel barrels. I do not have dies or components for it though I checked my powder reserves and found RL-15 and IMR 4198 so I think I'm ok there.

Thank you in advance. I appreciate all of your help.

BPE means Black Powder Express.

RL-15 and IMR 4198 are nitro powders and not the right stuff.

Your rifle is best suited for black powder and lead bullets.

Be carefully, not to blow apart the old lady.

HWL

 

[Sarg]

BPE means Black Powder Express.

RL-15 and IMR 4198 are nitro powders and not the right stuff.

Your rifle is best suited for black powder and lead bullets.

Be carefully, not to blow apart the old lady.

HWL

Whoa there buddy, nothing wrong with using the correct loads of appropriate powder & soft bullets in Black Powder Cartridge rifles (in good condition, of significant strength) & in some (most cases) it is less stressfull on the rifle, just don't load it like a NE - Nitro Express Cartridge .

We don't know the brand, type, strength of lock up or weight of the posters rifle yet, there is less recoil with a NFP Nitro For Black loads & in most cases the NFP or LN Light Nitro loading is a improvement over the BPE load for most game shooting .

 

[CJW]

Welcome!

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello Dholupko,

Khomas Highland Hunting Safaris of Namibia, welcomes you to the greatest forum on earth.

A member here (Cal Pappas) is actually a world authority on vintage double rifles.
Indeed he is a walking encyclopedia.
If you reach out to him, no doubt he could answer your .577 questions.

Best Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[fin003]

Welcome to AH! Glad you found us and joined.

 

[Dholupko]

Thank you all for your reply. I haven't received the rifles yet as they are in transit from the seller. Once I get them I'll post some pictures.

The first it a Wm Evans 470 NE, circa1926
The second is a hammer Purdy 577 BPE 3", Jones underlever screw grip, circa 189?. Don't remember the exact date.

I understand it was designed for black powder but have read plenty on Nitro for Black loads and, yes, that was my intent, to work up low pressure loads for it with the proper bullets. Not sure what the proper bullet is beyond the 570 gr. Can it be jacketed, lead only or paper patched?

Any suggestions on dies, bullets and brass; brand names and source are appreciated.

The seller did mention Cal Pappas and that he frequented this site. How does one contact him or others directly.

Also thank you for the congratulations on the rifles. I'm thrilled to be a part of this group and will likely change the way I hunt now. I live in New York; don't hold that against me. I live in upstate, not the city. Up here we are like any other suburban type area. I own property in the lower part of the state where I hunt whitetails, turkeys, etc. Rather than one of my self built bolt action rifles I will opt for one of these doubles, likely the 577. Far more romantic. For me it is no longer about the kill but more about the hunt.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Dholupko, welcome to the AH forum!
you can do private contact of those on the forum by clicking on the tiny envelope close to the top right corner of the page. Start a conversation with him there. I’m certain he has the knowledge to at least get you started.
Best of luck with your new toys!

 

[Dholupko]

Dholupko, welcome to the AH forum!
you can do private contact of those on the forum by clicking on the tiny envelope close to the top right corner of the page. Start a conversation with him there. I’m certain he has the knowledge to at least get you started.
Best of luck with your new toys!

Thank you! I will do so.

 

[BLAAUWKRANTZ safaris]

Welcome to AH! Hope you enjoy the forum.

 

[gin535]

Welcome to AH and the posting side! This forum has a wealth of information.

 

[Dholupko]

Guns have arrived pictures attached. Sorry, I'm not much of a photographer.

This one is 577 EXP.

 

[Dholupko]

This is the 470 NE

 

[Ward12constable]

Newbie here. I just purchased a W W Greener double rifle in 577 3” bpe made in the mid 1890’sIt apparently says “577 3 black powder 110 grns”. I assume that was the load of was regulated with. I would like to lost it to its usual load of about 180grn of black. I assume I can expect issues with regulation. But I’m new to the whole black powder cartridge rifle game and any info would much appreciated. I think it’s going to be a reload proposition, and will need to find reloading dies and such. Anyway, thanks for the help. Also some people recommend “nitro for black”. Is that like the currently loaded 45/70 loadings that are loaded with smokeless to black powder pressures? Thanks again.

 

[Dholupko]

Not sure I will be much help to you as I'm a newbie as well. Maybe one step ahead of you in searching for data and components. What I am finding is brass, dies and to some degree bullets are tough to come by. As for loading, I have a book at home that would be helpful to you. I'll write down the title and author and email you tomorrow with it.

In general, the 577 bpe 3" takes either a 570 gr or a 610gr bullet. You have the charge and the book I mentioned or the conversion formula for black powder to smokeless will get you started for loading. The conversion is something like 40% of the black powder charge (110gr) would be you start load for medium burn rate smokeless. For 577 BPE the common powder, but not the only one, is 4198. Cal Pappas also has a 75% rule. You can google that and it'll come up and you can read it online.

More later.

 

[Sarg]

@Dholupko thank you for that, photos look good & I would say your taste in rifles is Fantastic, if I had the money I could not imagine being able to walk passed these either, glade you got them home in one piece undamaged !

@Ward12constable you should probably start a new thread on your rifle bud, but it again sounds like a great rifle, to help we need pictures of the flats, what the lock up is & weight of the rifle, full rifle is also nice to look at .

Yours sounds strange from what you have said & your info does not seem right ?

If it is a factory 3in chamber should be max in the 167gr range in Black Powder so both your loads seem to be off ?

 

[Dholupko]

Sarg,

Thanks for replying to my thread. I couldn't help but notice you profile picture and the fantastic Buffalo you got. My plan is to work through my rifles for a year and learn to use the proficiently. I'm proficient with a SxS shotgun but a rifle has a different feel. Not to mention something might be aggressive and nerves might be high at the time. I want to be comfortable in my hands and have confidence.

Can I ask what outfitter you use and if you would recommend them? My plan is to go back for Buffalo in 2023.

Thanks
Dholupko

 

[Pondoro]

Seems like the loads for .577 BPE´s vary a lot.. I have a (very) late .577BPE 3" Lyon & Lyon, made 1900, regulated for the 167/650 load. I believe this was the final heaviest load before nitro took over..