505 Gibbs vs 500 Jeffery. Thoughts on these heavy hitters? Alternatives?

[Northern Shooter]

I've seen some discussion on here back and forth regarding the merits of these cartridges but also some of the cons ie finding/forming brass, overall cost, felt recoil, feeding issues (Jeffery) etc.

For those of you that made the jump up from the 458s but wanted to stick with a bolt action rifle, what did you decide to go with? Thoughts on these two cartridges? Any others to consider in the same class?

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Pros of .505 Gibbs:
- Larger case capacity (not that the .500 Jeffery lacks in this department)
- No rebated rim

Pros of .500 Jeffery:
- Can be accommodated by standard length actions
- More commonly available diameter of bullet (.510)


I'm personally fond of the .505 Gibbs, but you really can't go wrong with either choice.

 

[sgt_zim]

from the Hornady X reloading manual

The 505 Gibbs, developed over 100 years ago by George Gibbs, is nothing short of impressive. Capable of firing a 525 grain bullet at 2,300 feet per second it generates over 6,100 foot pounds of energy. Recoil is significant, as expected. With an 11 pound rifle, the shooter can expect nearly 100 foot pounds of recoil energy.

You do you, amigo. My 404 Jeff is as much recoil as I'll ever be willing to tolerate.

 

[Flewis]

Like many here I have both and love both. Really they have the same power. Load the 505 up and it’s a little faster than the 500j. To me the 505 has a lot more recoil. I don’t find the Jeff to be much more than the 458 Lott in recoil. Of course the weights are different. The Lott 8.5lbs-the 500j 9.5lbs- the 505 11.6lbs.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

Both of these calibers will kill anything in Africa that you may hunt. I chose the 505 Gibbs because of the easier feeding as I did not want any issues if a follow up shot was needed. My 505 Gibbs comes in at 11.3 pounds and has a stout recoil but not when you are shooting it at dangerous game…the only time I’m thinking of the recoil is at the range during practice sessions. Easy to overcome with correct form.

HH

 

[grand veneur]

I decided on the cartridge 500 Jeffery/12,7x70 Schüler, firstly because I dreamed about it since the sixties, at time no longer available, secondly because I was of the opinion that more compact and lighter rifles could be built for this cartridge, and lastly because in my opinion this cartridge is easier to reload than the cartridge 505 Gibbs.

 

[colorado]

I too initially was planning to buy a 505 Gibbs, but went with the 500 Jeffery because I was planning to build one on a CZ 550 action and I was concerned about the bolt face diameter's ability to handle the larger rim of the 505 Gibbs cartridge. It had some intial trouble feeding but visits to three excellent gunsmiths including Harlan at the CZ Custom Shop, Wayne at AHR and finally Kevin Weaver turned it into a beautifully functioning and accurate rifle.

 

[MLindsay]

I went another way on my 500, 500 A Square. To me this was very easy, BRNO 602, used excellent Weatherby cases which are easily fireformed. Easy to load, easy to make function, simple

 

[Northern Shooter]

I'm trying to learn more about the 500J. It sounds like it's a shorter cartridge that will fit a standard length action (ie 30.06) so why doesn't the 500J suffer from the same troubles that the 458 Win Mag had early on? I.e. Not enough capacity for the size of projectile.

It looks like a 500J cartridge is 3.46" in length vs the traditional 3.34" "standard" length cartridge. Does this mean that a standard action would have to be slightly modified to fit the 3.46" Jeffery or is there enough extra room in such an action to accommodate it?

It looks like the 500J has a case capacity of 158gr vs 95gr for the 458 WinMag, so I'm guessing that's how it performs so well without being a magnum length case.

If that wasn't impressive enough the 505 Gibbs has an additional 20gr for a total capacity of 178gr.

Impressive.

How does the 500 A-Square compare to these two? Any other 50cal bolt action cartridges that are still available?

 

[Flewis]

About 142 grains of water. It also runs at higher pressure. Yes the action will need worked for the 500j. Great round though.

 

[grand veneur]

We have written a lot about both cartridges on various topics on the Forum in the last few months.

Currently there are two cartridges, the 500 Jeffery and the 12,7x70 Schüler, which cannot be used alternately in all weapons.

The cartridge 500 Jeffery is better suited to a Magnum action for many reasons. I don't know the experience of those who keep claiming that the cartridge 500 Jeffery is well suited for a standard Mauser 98 action.

The loads of both cartridges are not comparable because right from the start the cartridge 505 Gibbs was loaded with Cordite and the cartridge 500 Jeffery with platelet powder. This also partly explains the size of the cartridge 505 Gibbs.

 

[AZDAVE]

I have owned and shot both a fair bit. I chose the 505 in the end as it feed perfectly and didn't have the rebated rim. My 500J needed a lot of work to get it to feed reliably. One of my shooting buddies is a CZ collector and had been after me for years to sell him the 500. So he is now its caretaker.

 

[Flewis]

I do agree that it’s better to use a magnum action. Lot less work.

 

[grand veneur]

The concept of August Schüler.

Some such weapons were used before and shortly after the WWII, but whether everything always worked well is another question. A famous elephant hunter who is still alive is said to have been not so convinced of this concept. At last his rifle caliber 500 Jeffery was built with a Mauser Magnum action.

 

[roverandbrew]

I can only speak on recoil with the 500J. Prior to shooting @spike.t's 500J (CZ550), a 375 H&H was my bigger rifle. I have some hardware in my right shoulder so was a bit apprehensive. Shooting off the sticks I was pleasantly surprised at how manageable it was. I think it is a caliber in a properly weighted rifle that can easily be used on dangerous game.

 

[GOX6]

Hard choice. The gibbs is a big ole cartridge with a case head to match = not much meat left on the bolt face rim. If you ever drop that bolt...

The Jeffreys is hard to make feed with a staggered mag I hear. Something about the rebated rim.

I'd personally go for a 500 A-Square. Essentially a necked up 460 weatherby.

I actually have a CZ550 magnum action lying around somewhere from back when I was all excited about african hunting..

 

[grand veneur]

When you load the next round from a double row magazine the cartridge move in three dimensions. On the way into the chamber there is a moment when the cartridge with a rebated rim can slip under the bold head. Feeding from a single stack magazine is in theory no problem, assuming the cartridges are kept in the magazine. Something like that was often done with clamps, like with the cartridge 425 Westley Richards.

No matter what, the cartridge 500 Jeffery can, due the rebated rim, cause problems when it comes to fast reloading. I speak from personal experience, nevertheless, I like the cartridge 500 Schüler.

What now concerns the necked up cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum, there are a few, including the one quoted 500 A-Square. But the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum has a very bad reputation since the beginning, it will get a better one when it becomes necked up to caliber 50 ?

 

[RR 314]

When you load the next round from a double row magazine the cartridge move in three dimensions. On the way into the chamber there is a moment when the cartridge with a rebated rim can slip under the bold head. Feeding from a single stack magazine is in theory no problem, assuming the cartridges are kept in the magazine. Something like that was often done with clamps, like with the cartridge 425 Westley Richards.

No matter what, the cartridge 500 Jeffery can, due the rebated rim, cause problems when it comes to fast reloading. I speak from personal experience, nevertheless, I like the cartridge 500 Schüler.

What now concerns the necked up cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum, there are a few, including the one quoted 500 A-Square. But the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum has a very bad reputation since the beginning, it will get a better one when it becomes necked up to caliber 50 ?

The disdain for the .460 Weatherby (largely) comes from people showing up in Africa with a gun they had not shot much and couldn’t shoot it well. The Weatherby rifles were relatively light, Mark Vs were obviously push feed, and a lot were seemingly bought by people unfamiliar with heavy recoiling guns as they were the biggest and baddest. In a proper rifle, the round itself is solid.

 

[spike.t]

I can only speak on recoil with the 500J. Prior to shooting @spike.t's 500J (CZ550), a 375 H&H was my bigger rifle. I have some hardware in my right shoulder so was a bit apprehensive. Shooting off the sticks I was pleasantly surprised at how manageable it was. I think it is a caliber in a properly weighted rifle that can easily be used on dangerous game.

Yeah well my friend that one only weighs about 10lbs with that wood stock, and 9.5lbs with the synthetic one...so it's not the correct weight according to most......

 

[Flewis]

I will have to disagree Spike, 9.5 is a good weight and I wouldn’t mind 9.0. Frank