.500 NE Reloading - Noobie Questions

[A Rosenth]

Thank you everyone for your helpful advice! There are a few more things I am thinking about:

• That max pressure question – I see Hodgdon reloading data with pressures above 40k PSI. Is that understood to be relatively safe?
• On the max pressure note, are there any pressure signs to be aware of besides flattened primers?
• Does bullet seating tend to have a significant impact? I’ve seen this make a big difference in modern cartridges, but is it also a significant factor in DRs?
• Finally, barrel life – is there any (general) consensus on barrel life for a modern DR?

Thanks again for your help!

 

[AZDAVE]

Like everyone else I have heard that a 4th addition of his book is coming out but I have no idea when it will be released.

 

[frog stealer]

I’ve had good luck with nitro for black loads in my Heym 577, give these a try (from Graeme’s book):

 

[Rafiki]

Thank you everyone for your helpful advice! There are a few more things I am thinking about:

• That max pressure question – I see Hodgdon reloading data with pressures above 40k PSI. Is that understood to be relatively safe?
• On the max pressure note, are there any pressure signs to be aware of besides flattened primers?
• Does bullet seating tend to have a significant impact? I’ve seen this make a big difference in modern cartridges, but is it also a significant factor in DRs?
• Finally, barrel life – is there any (general) consensus on barrel life for a modern DR?

Thanks again for your help!

Seating depth definitely has implications on pressure. I mentioned somewhere here that pressure goes up as freespace is reduced so if you seat the bullet deeper pressure increases. Conversely the shallower you seat pressure is reduced. Of course there are limits to that because of coming in contact with the lands; YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT! This is because without a "jump" to engrave you basically have a blockage to overcome. It doesn't need to be much but for safety sake there needs to be some. Banded bullets (CEB, Northfork, Barns and the like) are supposed to be more forgiving.

40k is OK unless it's an antique.

Barrel life? you wont be shooting this bruiser enough to worry about it. That said, when shooting paper choose lead or soft copper jacketed (Hawks come to mind); heck, they are cheaper anyway. Sometimes I use paper patched bullets; they are actually fun to shoot and amazingly accurate.

 

[Just a dude in BC]

A note on flattened or cratered primers vs pressure vs bolt thrust vs action strength.

1. Primers are flattened by pressure from the case.
2. Bolt or action thrust, is the amount of force the base of the case pushes against the bolt or action. It comes from the pressure in the cartridge, pressing at the back of the case. So it is a function of the area of the bottom inside of the case, times the pressure. On a 500 NE it is probably about something like 1/3 of an inch. So at 40kpsi, the bolt thrust is something like 13,000 lb of force.
3. Different action designs are stronger than others. With leaver action / break actions being some of the weaker ones, and bolt / falling block actions being some of the stronger ones.

What does this mean?
Well, despite being a low pressure round, the 500ne puts a lot of strain on the action, simply due to the size of the area at that low pressure. So lots of force, regardless of pressure.
The problem with this is that the primers you use, are probably standard magnum large rifle primers. which go in things like 458 win mags, 375 h&h, and the like. Those carts have pressures around 60kpsi. Subsequently primers wont start to flatten out until around 55kpsi - 58kpsi, and the real flattening starts taking place between 60kpsi-65kpsi.

So.... Do not use primer flattening as a gauge for over pressure in any gun which has low pressure standards. This is virtually all Nitro express cartridges, and many rimmed carts as well.

 

[A Rosenth]

A note on flattened or cratered primers vs pressure vs bolt thrust vs action strength.

1. Primers are flattened by pressure from the case.
2. Bolt or action thrust, is the amount of force the base of the case pushes against the bolt or action. It comes from the pressure in the cartridge, pressing at the back of the case. So it is a function of the area of the bottom inside of the case, times the pressure. On a 500 NE it is probably about something like 1/3 of an inch. So at 40kpsi, the bolt thrust is something like 13,000 lb of force.
3. Different action designs are stronger than others. With leaver action / break actions being some of the weaker ones, and bolt / falling block actions being some of the stronger ones.

What does this mean?
Well, despite being a low pressure round, the 500ne puts a lot of strain on the action, simply due to the size of the area at that low pressure. So lots of force, regardless of pressure.
The problem with this is that the primers you use, are probably standard magnum large rifle primers. which go in things like 458 win mags, 375 h&h, and the like. Those carts have pressures around 60kpsi. Subsequently primers wont start to flatten out until around 55kpsi - 58kpsi, and the real flattening starts taking place between 60kpsi-65kpsi.

So.... Do not use primer flattening as a gauge for over pressure in any gun which has low pressure standards. This is virtually all Nitro express cartridges, and many rimmed carts as well.

Thanks, very good info to keep in mind! With that said it seems like one should just start low and work up slowly, with 2150 fps basically being the goal. Regardless of velocity, never exceed the max load indicated in reloading sources! Hopefully following those guidelines one will be able to keep below max pressure...

 

[VertigoBE]

Picking this thread back up.

I have never reloaded in my life. Yet for my .500NE I have no choice but to reload. What would be the list of gear to get, to reload well for this (and perhaps .458 , .416 , 375, etc.) ?

 

[Rare Breed]

Seating depth definitely has implications on pressure. I mentioned somewhere here that pressure goes up as freespace is reduced so if you seat the bullet deeper pressure increases. Conversely the shallower you seat pressure is reduced. Of course there are limits to that because of coming in contact with the lands; YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT! This is because without a "jump" to engrave you basically have a blockage to overcome. It doesn't need to be much but for safety sake there needs to be some. Banded bullets (CEB, Northfork, Barns and the like) are supposed to be more forgiving.

40k is OK unless it's an antique.

Barrel life? you wont be shooting this bruiser enough to worry about it. That said, when shooting paper choose lead or soft copper jacketed (Hawks come to mind); heck, they are cheaper anyway. Sometimes I use paper patched bullets; they are actually fun to shoot and amazingly accurate.

While this is obvious to DR reloaded I do want to remind you fillers will be required with RL15.5 and IMR3031 and anything under 90% fill. I always go to Trader Keith and buy #2 fillers. perfect fit and little pressure added

 

[Rafiki]

I read somewhere that QL doesn't work well for straight wall cartridges, so info from it tends to be unrealiable for these older big bores. Do you know if there's any truth to that?

Yes, QL states somewhere that it calculates about +10% for straight walled cases. I shoot mostly straight wall cartridges and that seems to be true ,,,, but NEVER rely on that.