450-400 Nitro Express Recoil

[Andrew62]

I know the subject of recoil is discussed at nauseam on here, but I cannot seem to find the answer I am looking for. After shoulder replacement surgery years ago, and 2 subsequent shoulder surgeries, I tend to be a bit more recoil sensitive. I currently have a Kimber Talkeetna, .375H&H, after shortening the barrel and having the barrel tapered, with scope, it weighs 7 lbs 12 oz. At my range I put on a muzzle brake and a limbsaver recoil pad, and it is actually not bad to shoot. When I hunt I take those 2 items off and I manage along just ok, I do get some neck pain. I am considering purchasing a double rifle in 450-400, 3", I see the ones I was looking at weigh 9 lbs 6 oz, can anyone give me an honest opinion of how much more recoil this double would have over my lightweight 375H&H? I shoot 300 grain Barnes ammo in my 375H&H. Thank you all for your help!!!

 

[Tanks]

I think with the extra 1.5 pounds it would be negligible. Also, you could add an 8 or 16 oz Mercury recoil reducer and reduce the recoil even more.

That being said, the biggest factor in recoil impact is technique. Let recoil happen and just ride the recoil, let recoil energy go up and not back into your shoulder as much. I just posted a video of that in this thread on post 17.

Booking for 2022, ~5 weeks in Africa

Well, I have been back for about a month from Zimbabwe and ready to head back. I just finished nailing down dates with CMS and @spike.t . I will be in Zimbabwe, specifically, Nyakasanga for buffalo and tuskless elephant August 1 - 14, 2022. Then I head out to Lusaka, Zambia on the 16th to hunt...

www.africahunting.com

 

[crs]

"Let recoil happen and just ride the recoil let recoil energy go up and not back in to your shoulder as much."
This fundamental technique is what allows me to shoot heavy .458 African loads with a concave metal butt plate. The rifle rises up , absorbs the recoil, and comes back down on target. A simple trick that has allowed folks to shoot heavy loads without a cushioned recoil pad for decades, if not centuries.

 

[Andrew62]

I think with the extra 1.5 pounds it would be negligible. Also, you could add an 8 or 16 oz Mercury recoil reducer and reduce the recoil even more.

That being said, the biggest factor in recoil impact is technique. Let recoil happen and just ride the recoil, let recoil energy go up and not back into your shoulder as much. I just posted a video of that in this thread on post 17.

Booking for 2022, ~5 weeks in Africa

Well, I have been back for about a month from Zimbabwe and ready to head back. I just finished nailing down dates with CMS and @spike.t . I will be in Zimbabwe, specifically, Nyakasanga for buffalo and tuskless elephant August 1 - 14, 2022. Then I head out to Lusaka, Zambia on the 16th to hunt...

www.africahunting.com

Tanks, that video is very helpful, thank you very much for pointing this out to me!!

 

[Andrew62]

"Let recoil happen and just ride the recoil let recoil energy go up and not back in to your shoulder as much."
This fundamental technique is what allows me to shoot heavy .458 African loads with a concave metal butt plate. The rifle rises up , absorbs the recoil, and comes back down on target. A simple trick that has allowed folks to shoot heavy loads without a cushioned recoil pad for decades, if not centuries.

Thank you for your insight, I appreciate it!!

 

[AZDAVE]

A 450/400 double vs light weight 375 recoil will be a wash. As long as both fit you correctly.

 

[OldCombatEngr]

I know the subject of recoil is discussed at nauseam on here, but I cannot seem to find the answer I am looking for. After shoulder replacement surgery years ago, and 2 subsequent shoulder surgeries, I tend to be a bit more recoil sensitive. I currently have a Kimber Talkeetna, .375H&H, after shortening the barrel and having the barrel tapered, with scope, it weighs 7 lbs 12 oz. At my range I put on a muzzle brake and a limbsaver recoil pad, and it is actually not bad to shoot. When I hunt I take those 2 items off and I manage along just ok, I do get some neck pain. I am considering purchasing a double rifle in 450-400, 3", I see the ones I was looking at weigh 9 lbs 6 oz, can anyone give me an honest opinion of how much more recoil this double would have over my lightweight 375H&H? I shoot 300 grain Barnes ammo in my 375H&H. Thank you all for your help!!!

I know the subject of recoil is discussed at nauseam on here, but I cannot seem to find the answer I am looking for. After shoulder replacement surgery years ago, and 2 subsequent shoulder surgeries, I tend to be a bit more recoil sensitive. I currently have a Kimber Talkeetna, .375H&H, after shortening the barrel and having the barrel tapered, with scope, it weighs 7 lbs 12 oz. At my range I put on a muzzle brake and a limbsaver recoil pad, and it is actually not bad to shoot. When I hunt I take those 2 items off and I manage along just ok, I do get some neck pain. I am considering purchasing a double rifle in 450-400, 3", I see the ones I was looking at weigh 9 lbs 6 oz, can anyone give me an honest opinion of how much more recoil this double would have over my lightweight 375H&H? I shoot 300 grain Barnes ammo in my 375H&H. Thank you all for your help!!!

Since you ask about the relative recoil for the two loads and rifles, not the specific values of recoil energy, one can do a simple comparison of relative momenta between the two, without rigorously converting weights to masses. The relative masses and squared recoil velocities allow comparison of recoil energies. I assume the 300-gr exits the 7.75-lb .375 gun at 2,500-fps, while the 400-gr exits the 9.375-lb .450/.400 gun at 2,100-fps. The heavier .450/.400 double recoil velocity is only 0.926 as much as that of the .375 H&H. The recoil energy, which is usually stated to be what we should feel, would be about 1.0370 as much for the .450/.400 as the .375 H&H. The difference in recoil one feels might be imperceptible, especially considering any differences between them in stock fit, recoil pad, and muzzle brake.

 

[OldCombatEngr]

A 450/400 double vs light weight 375 recoil will be a wash. As long as both fit you correctly.

Yes, these two rounds can be virtually the same, only a few percent different in calculated recoil energy--depending on rifle weights and loads fired. Throw in differences in recoil pads, stock dimension "fit", and muzzle brakes, and either might feel different to a shooter.

 

[Andrew62]

Yes, these two rounds can be virtually the same, only a few percent different in calculated recoil energy--depending on rifle weights and loads fired. Throw in differences in recoil pads, stock dimension "fit", and muzzle brakes, and either might feel different to a shooter.

Thank you for your helpful response!

 

[Troubleshooter]

This is a pretty old thread, so not sure whether Andrew62 decided to purchase the double rifle referenced in the original post. But ........... some general comments are possible.

Additional information regarding the .375 H&H load would be needed to provide a precise answer. Assuming a 300gr bullet, a Hornady factory load with a velocity of 2670 fps, and an 8-lb. rifle, the recoil energy would be 49.11 ft-lbs. That's without the muzzle brake which the OP stated was on his Kimber. *

For comparison, the .450-400 3" NE firing a 400gr Hornady factory load at 2050 fps from an 8-lb. rifle would be 54.45 ft-lbs recoil energy. * Note that this rifle is 1 lb. lighter than that mentioned in the original post. I think that most actual doubles will weigh a bit more in the 10-11 lb range.

So not an exact comparison, but I would suggest that the .450-400 NE recoil would be very comparable to that of the .375 H&H. From a purely anecdotal standpoint, I limit my practice sessions to no more than 20 rds of .450-400 NE. More than that results in shoulder pain. That's from a ~ 10.5 lb. double with steel buttplate (no recoil pad) but I do wear the EvoShield shoulder pad.

* Data from Chamberlain, Andrew "Cartridge Comparison Guide 2" Table 1, pp 62-63.

 

[TheDoubleD]

I am late to this party, but I will add my two bits also.

I shoot .577 3" NE-750 grain Barnes TSZ, 2 different 500 No. 2 Express-Woodleigh 440 gr. SP (Varget) and 450/400 3" N.E.-Swift 400 grain A-frame.

I normally only ever shoot these guns standing over a tripod or on a standing rest. Experience shooting these cartridges from the bench has been uncomfortable, except for the 450/400 3" NE. For me that cartridge is bench shootable.

 

[Andrew62]

This is a pretty old thread, so not sure whether Andrew62 decided to purchase the double rifle referenced in the original post. But ........... some general comments are possible.

Additional information regarding the .375 H&H load would be needed to provide a precise answer. Assuming a 300gr bullet, a Hornady factory load with a velocity of 2670 fps, and an 8-lb. rifle, the recoil energy would be 49.11 ft-lbs. That's without the muzzle brake which the OP stated was on his Kimber. *

For comparison, the .450-400 3" NE firing a 400gr Hornady factory load at 2050 fps from an 8-lb. rifle would be 54.45 ft-lbs recoil energy. * Note that this rifle is 1 lb. lighter than that mentioned in the original post. I think that most actual doubles will weigh a bit more in the 10-11 lb range.

So not an exact comparison, but I would suggest that the .450-400 NE recoil would be very comparable to that of the .375 H&H. From a purely anecdotal standpoint, I limit my practice sessions to no more than 20 rds of .450-400 NE. More than that results in shoulder pain. That's from a ~ 10.5 lb. double with steel buttplate (no recoil pad) but I do wear the EvoShield shoulder pad.

* Data from Chamberlain, Andrew "Cartridge Comparison Guide 2" Table 1, pp 62-63.

Thank you very much for your helpful reply. Yes, I did buy a 450/400 OU, however, when it arrived, my buddy bugged me until I sold it to him, so I only ever shot it a couple of times. I was using Hornady factory loads, it was plenty of horsepower for me, but manageable.

For my .375H&H I use factory Barnes TSX or Federal Premium Swift Aframes, I think these have a velocity of 2450 +/-. When I want to just fire off a few rounds, I put on a muzzle brake, then when I go to hunt I take off the muzzle brake, check zero with another shot, then I go hunting.

With the responses I have gotten, I'm of the belief my best bet would be a 450/400. My aversion to buying a double is that I do not hand load, and have no interest in learning to hand load. I am NOT a handy person, have little patience for such stuff. But now that my buddy is loading for a 450/400, even though we would most likely need different loads, he still has the ingredients needed to help sort out a load for any 450/400 double I would buy.

Again, thank you, and thanks to everyone who has responded to this thread!!