425 Westley Richards—want to share and advice sought

[Vagrouser]

Hi everyone,

I won this rifle at auction last year and am just now getting around to posting pics. I hope you all find it interesting and worthy of sharing.

It’s a .425 Westley Richards made in 1928 and delivered to a W.J. Miolee in Bulawayo. The factory ledger doesn’t list barrel length but I presume was originally 28”. Sadly someone chopped it to 18” and set the front sight back. Happily everything else including the one standing, two folding leaf rear sight, and Silvers pad all letter. The screws are excellent as is the 5 round drop magazine and overall is in very nice shape. I imagine lack of readily available ammo limited its use. This has the keeper ears to enable proper feeding.

All-in-all it’s an iconic African rifle and while I wasn’t specifically looking for one, it struck me as being relatively uncommon and worth pursuing.

Im going to chrono it and see what kind of groups I get. I’m not expecting much, but if pleasantly surprised I may just have a smith move the barrel sling mount back to make it look better and call it a day. I expect though that a proper re barrel is called for. I reached out to WR for a quote out of curiosity but imagine I’d be well ahead to get a guild member to do the job state side. If I go this route it would be logical to choose a 28” barrel as proper but more practical perhaps to go shorter. I’d of course have the original contour duplicated and carryover the sights, sling eye, etc..

Thoughts and input are welcome and I’ll follow up as I proceed.

 

[baxterb]

Neat rifle. Looks to be in great shape for nearing 100. I see it has the interesting retention mechanism for the 425. Gunmaker I.S. Sweetman is making a 425 with that same system now.

You might call Lon Paul when you get around to a new barrel.

I always wonder how long rifles like that stood int he corner/safe for the pad to smush like that.

 

[mdsalern]

Westley Richards is here in the US as well. I’d imagine they could do that stateside.

 

[K E Johnson]

Beautiful old rifle. It’s history is it’s history. I would definitely see how it shoots with the shorter barrel. If you decide to have a new barrel fitted, it would be a shame if the original didn’t stay with the rifle for posterity.
It was just a tool when the barrel was shortened. It’s still a very nice tool, just has more history. I agree standing in a corner is a lot of the history. Still bet it would have some tales if it could talk.

 

[Mark Audino]

The .425 is a classic and it kills. You have a very decent platform from which to build upon because this is the Deluxe model with the keeper ears to ensure more reliable feeding. That's a BIG factor with the .425.

As for replacing the barrel . . . much depends on your personal objective. If you go the classic route and install a replacement with the proper contour and length of 28", it will always be a "replacement barrel" to a purist collector or the most discerning buyer. So, resale value won't approach what the genuine article would fetch despite any newness. I think of these things because of my age. My family will end up with my guns and they should have a realistic perspective of what each gun is worth if I turf myself in the Caucasus.

But if resale value isn't your main objective, you could duplicate the original contour and 28" length and be happy that you have restored a classic as much as possible to its original configuration and simply enjoy using it. It would be one nice working rifle of classic design indicative of safari's golden years. If you select WR to replace the barrel to the original length and contour, that helps improve potential resale at least marginally. These days, the value of the US Dollar isn't doing too badly against the British Pound relatively speaking. So, hopefully at a good price, you would have the "barrel replaced by maker" confidence builder. WR does superb work, and they are good people.

On another level and again putting resale value aside for the express purpose of simply having a great practical rifle at the end of your effort, a decent solution is to reduce the length to what you feel is practical for the hunting you do. Practical might be a length like 24". I would personally seek help from someone who can judge length & contour in proportion to the stock's mass and overall lines. There are many custom gunmakers in USA and abroad who know their way around British DG rifles to be of great help before you finalize your plan. There would still be so much British DG rifle aura left over in going this practical route that I personally would never look back.

Best wishes and good hunting.

 

[Shako Badhan]

A beautiful classic you have there. I have always admired these rifles and their distinctive look. If it does not shoot well and would not be an effective tool for hunting then a re-barrel to get back in the field? If it performs, I would maybe keep it as is? It was modified at some point for a reason, a bit of added history and probably a story behind it.

I have a revolver, Webley WG target model that was retailed by John Dickson and Son a few years before the First World War. It had its barrel factory shortened to meet the military standards. At the time British officers had to supply their own sidearm, it would seem someone had their target revolver modified so it could be carried with them to France. Sometimes modifications can add something special.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Very uncommon, but highly potent caliber. Contact Douglas barrels and get a Douglas Premium barrel made in 28”.

For brass, contact Bruce Bertham. And for bullets, contact Rhino. Rhino makes an exceptional 400Gr solid shank bullet and a 400Gr monolithic solid bullet for the .425 Westley Richards.

 

[baxterb]

Westley Richards is here in the US as well. I’d imagine they could do that stateside.

WR is actually doing work here?

 

[mdsalern]

No clue. I would find it hard to believe that they wouldn’t have someone capable of using a barrel vice and an action wrench on this side of the pond though.

 

[318AE]

Congratulations on a great gun. I’ve got 4180x and can confirm it is remarkably effective. I prefer it to my 416, and can’t say for sure exactly why. I would have a new silvers pad fitted and do nothing else, other than use it as is…. I don’t think fitting a new barrel will increase the value of the rifle, and wouldn’t be the least bit concerned about velocity.

Westley Richards was always innovative, and found an outstanding solution to their lack of availability of magnum actions. The stacked magazine and fingers work flawlessly, even upside down.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Beautiful, classic, rifle. Is it possible it was custom ordered with that barrel length?

Safe shooting

 

[318AE]

Beautiful, classic, rifle. Is it possible it was custom ordered with that barrel length?

Safe shooting

It’s unlikely. “Foresight was of standard configuration with a protector”. That would likely be the WR flip back style protector, which it no longer has. I certainly think they would have mounted the sling eye further back. The one I have like this (a few serial numbers away) has a 28” barrel. Even my 425 take down has a 24” barrel. Some of the 318 takedowns had shorter barrels, but I’ve never seen a 18”.

I think the current owner has it right. Still a really cool rifle, with lots of character etc. So few of these go 100 years unaltered. Many stories about these being used by game departments etc.

 

[Red Leg]

The rifle has no "purist" collector value now due to the barrel length (may Satan have a special place in hell for the person who cut it.) Should you have WR barrel it appropriately, you would restore a great deal of that value. Thank God English rifles and guns, which were often returned to the maker for "freshening," are not subject to the rules of percentage of original condition like Colts and Winchesters.

And yes, you would have to send it to the UK where the rifle would have to go back through proof. I suspect all of that will represent a considerable investment.

If the thing shoots with that barrel, then I would be inclined to follow your first instincts. I would have your gunsmith re-crown it as well while moving the swivel. A bit of discreet hand polishing and a new rust blue finish to the metal would also be easy. (Warn your gunsmith, with a loaded firearm if necessary, to keep the polishing wheel unplugged.)

My last choice would be a new barrel from some Stateside gunmaker. At that point you have a cobbled together rifle using a WR action and it would be valued accordingly.

 

[Vagrouser]

Gentlemen thanks to each of you. The thoughtful replies are very much appreciated.
I emailed WR UK yesterday and had a reply waiting when I woke up this morning. They are backlogged 4 years and not taking on rebarrel services at this time which is understandable.
Per my earlier post, I’m going to see how she shoots in her present state—if reasonable grouping I may see if helped further with a re crown at which point l’ll have the front sling mount moved back.
If that’s a non starter then I’ll rebarrel to make it usable. I think it deserves the best efforts and expense of using an ACGG member’s services although I’m aware that I’m building a custom rifle with no collector value to speak of. That’s okay as I knew this getting into the rifle. Honestly I’ve got plenty of practical rifles so I’m leaning toward a 28” barrel just to put it back the original configuration and enjoying a nostalgia piece that fills a gap in my “African battery” alongside a 500/465 double, a 1920s 275 Rigby and a 6.5 MS 1903 carbine.
I’ve not yet been to Africa but hoping to make the trip in a couple years when my kids are old enough to join. If I were leaving now though I’d be hard pressed as to what to bring. Sadly the days of the multiple rifle, mixed bag safaris seem to have largely passed from reading hunt reports and my eyes are no longer what they were as I’m sure many can relate. It’s quite likely I’d take the 500/465 and my R8 with a 375 and 300 Win mag barrels. It’s still fun to put together a battery of rifles while I wait and who knows the 425 may make the trip back someday!

 

[Tintin]

Nice.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Red Leg]

A final thought. Doug Turnbull does some spectacular work with respect to finishes (and not just case color). Give them a call. Should you go the new barrel route, they could likely duplicate the original barrel markings.

 

[shotgungibbs]

Beautiful classic rifle! I wouldn't worry about the re-sale value. I'd make the rifle whatever makes you happy, and that you get enjoyment from while using it! That's where the value comes from, not from the re-sale of it.

 

[baxterb]

Beautiful classic rifle! I wouldn't worry about the re-sale value. I'd make the rifle whatever makes you happy, and that you get enjoyment from while using it! That's where the value comes from, not from the re-sale of it.

Yup.

 

[Vagrouser]

Update:
I called Lon Paul today and he remembered this rifle from the auction. He’s a wealth of knowledge and we must’ve spent 45 minutes talking about the 425s and related topics. Unfortunately he’s also got a pile of work ahead of him and I’d be looking at years not months for a rebarrel. I expect I’ll get similar feedback from the known gunsmiths.

When I got home this evening I heated the barrel sling mount and removed it—aesthetically it looks a lot better with this off perched as it was under the front sight at the muzzle. When I’m not rushed, I’ll solder this back closer to the forearm and stick with my plan to shoot it next. I can live with it in this current configuration as long as it groups and is making reasonable velocity. Balance mounted and carried over the shoulder is actually pretty good and owing to the beefy barrel shank and drop magazine the weight is kept between the hands.

If it falls short, I’ll see if I can get a barrel with the appropriate contour and a reamer and get one of the local guys here in Wyoming where I live to do the job. We’ve got plenty of precision long range shooters here and I’m guessing there’s local talent. About 12 years ago when I was living back in Virginia I was fortunate enough to know a gunsmith who taught me to properly rust blue. I’ll need to get the burners, tanks and solution etc but if I can’t farm it out I’ll tackle that part myself.

 

[igotit]

VERY reliable. Westley Richards didn't get famous by having their elephant hunting clients use unreliable guns!!

Selous used a take-down .425 WR for many many years and the gun is still around.