416 Rigby Brass Issue

[kesha]

Hello folks I recently acquired a 416 Rigby Double Rifle and sent it off to get re-regulated. Factory Hornady is loaded at 2415 fps would not group, they worked up a hand load at 2100 fps and 4 shot group at 60 yds can cover with thumb (pretty good) the problem is when you reload that to the new lighter load and fire it the cases are spliting horizontally just above the belt at the bottom. There should be no reason with a lower load should only get 2 shots from new brass. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I called rifle manufaturer and the distribution rep and basically got a "Good Luck".

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Hello folks I recently acquired a 416 Rigby Double Rifle and sent it off to get re-regulated. Factory Hornady is loaded at 2415 fps would not group, they worked up a hand load at 2100 fps and 4 shot group at 60 yds can cover with thumb (pretty good) the problem is when you reload that to the new lighter load and fire it the cases are spliting horizontally just above the belt at the bottom. There should be no reason with a lower load should only get 2 shots from new brass. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I called rifle manufaturer and the distribution rep and basically got a "Good Luck".

Did your 416 Rigby cases split after 2 or more 2400 fps handloads?
If so, then the chambers may be slightly oversize.
For this, try to neck size fired cases rather than full length resizing.

If your cases only split with the reduced loads of 2100 fps, then you may be below the minimum for that cartridge in your chambers. Detonation is a danger in shooting far to light handgun loads where it has been theorized to be the cause of split barrels. You may even try fireforming your brass prior to your first full load.

Also, your rifle was not re-regulated. Rather, someone developed loads that match whatever loads your rifle was regulated to. Regulating is heating the solder between the barrels and moving the barrels to “regulate” to a specified load. J.J. Perodeau, Ken Owens, and perhaps others could regulate your rifle to factory or other 2400 fps 416 Rigby loads.

 

[kesha]

No they had to break the solder loose on the ends as they shortned the barrel .190" to remove the burr marks from factory and re soldered. 1st shot was 2400 factory load second shot was 2100 and split. Guy says when you tap on barrel it should ring like a bell and if it is dead sounding it has come loose somewhere so he was suppose to repair that as well.

 

[kesha]

JJ refused to look at it.

 

[Lone Star Bluegrass]

What make of double?
Can you post pictures of the brass and share load data?

 

[cajunchefray]

No they had to break the solder loose on the ends as they shortned the barrel .190" to remove the burr marks from factory and re soldered. 1st shot was 2400 factory load second shot was 2100 and split. Guy says when you tap on barrel it should ring like a bell and if it is dead sounding it has come loose somewhere so he was suppose to repair that as well.

A few suggestions from a journeyman reloader and double rifle owner:

-Have a proper chamber cast made by a qualified gunsmith, of your double rifle chambers

- Check your reloading die settings, that match the chamber cast. Excessive headspace is the primary cause of case splitting. If the datum line is not matched by the die settings, even.002- .003 off, brass cartridge bases can split. (Ask me how I know (I'm glad it was in a VZ-24 Mauser 98, my eyes were protected).

-Explore the brand of your rifle and proper build. Contact them if an issue in build is apparent.
Ring the barrels.

- For your lighter loads (2100fps) consider a filler, such as Kynoch wads, for full case fill, to ensure proper ignition, and make sure to use Magnum Rifle Primers.

Good luck. Doubles are a work in process.

 

[kesha]

Sorry it took so long to post pics but I just got them back.
Again these were factory loaded Hornady DGX shot 1x 2415 fps
Then re loaded with 88 grains of IMR 3031.
Case only used 2x.
What could be the cause of this? TIA

 

[RR 314]

Man, my guess would be excessive head space. Admittedly, I know nothing about doubles, but looks like head space.

 

[Aaron N]

There has to be some sort of back story if JJ refused to look at it. Is it a Cabelas gun?

 

[fourfive8]

Looks like excessive headspace to me. If you are using new brass to begin with, you need to fire form the brass, especially the shoulder datum ring to your chamber. Once done, resize only enough, by trial and error, so cartridge goes plunk when dropped into chamber... or when there is no resistance to chambering when closing action. You can mark the body and shoulder with felt tip and chamber to see where the contact is in both the chamber and the sizing die. Fire forming new brass is pretty easy using cast lead bullets seated out so they jam hard into lands when chambering, but you have to use appropriate load and get pressure up to at least 30Kpsi for forming. Some shooters don't like shooting cast bullets but it is one of the safest ways if done properly to effectively fire form new brass with one shot without inducing extra headspace and wasting brass.

 

[Nhoro]

Your brass looks really rough above the crack. I would be very careful- you say regulation was off and manufacturer left some kind of machining damage at the muzzle. You also seem to have a headspace issue and chambers that look like they were reamed with a drill bit. I suggest that you dont shoot that rifle again until you investigate- go/ no go headspace guage and chamber casting. I believe the rigby headspaces on the neck so you can also check your fired brass against factory. You may pick up the neck has pushed forward indicating headspace problems.

 

[fourfive8]

Headspace issue! Either excessive headspace in the chamber or excessive headspace is being induced during the resizing/reloading process. An easy, non-quantitive check is to size a case, insert new primer and fire it in rifle. If primer shows a lot of protrusion then there is excessive headspace between cartridge and chamber. Headspace is determined by both the cartridge and chamber. The 416 Rigby cartridge headspaces on the shoulder. The 416 Rigby does not headspace on the neck. The so-called datum ring is the actual contact zone on the shoulder where the case makes primary contact with the shoulder area in the chamber. That is normally the area of the shoulder nearest the neck junction.

You need to get with an experienced reloader who understands headspace and have a gunsmith check headspace in the chambers.

 

[Tex .416]

This problem can occur when the brass is resized too much and there is excessive stretching of the case.

Hornady makes a handy set of gauges to use in setting the sizing die.

Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Ga 5 Bushing Set Comparator

The Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gauge is a great tool for increasing the accuracy of your loaded ammunition. The Headspace gauge measures from the...

www.midwayusa.com

Use these on calipers to measure base to shoulder datum line. The shoulder only needs to be set back 0.002” - 0.003”.

Toss the fired brass and start over with some new Norma brass. Raven Rock Precision has it in stock:

Norma 416 Rigby Brass

Norma 416 Rigby Brass

ravenrocksprecision.com

A few other suggestions, clean the rifle chambers with a brush, clean the sizing die and lube it with Hornady One Shot, check the case length after sizing on every case, and make sure the cases are lubed adequately before sizing. Hornady One Shot is good, otherwise, Imperial case lube is a go to.

Hope that helps.