308 Norma Mag project

[Pheroze]

I have a significant character flaw in that I tend to pursue temptations in an unbridled and spontaneous fashion. Sometimes, this lack of self-control results in unintended but very pleasant consequences such as children. In this case, I have been tempted with the idea that I wanted something with a bit more power than my 06 for distance. I also wanted something unique. My rational side always came back to the absolute suitability of the 06 for me. Fortunately, my rational side has not prevailed and I am building a 308 Norma Mag.

The donor rifle will be a BRNO ZKK-600 in 30-06. The rifle has a failed recoil pad job but is otherwise sound and with a good bore. cool pop up peep site btw. The work will be done by Lemieux Armurier in Quebec. I have sourced 50 pieces of Norma brass and Reddy FL dies from Prophet River Outfitters in BC.

And, get this, I found a Swarovski Z5 3.5-18 scope on sale for a couple hundred more than a vortex razor I was considering

Oh lordy what have I done....

Stay tuned sports fans and we shall see what I have wrought.

 

[DM Shooting]

Good man I'm not the only one now!!!!

 

[35bore]

Pheroze, brother,,,, I grasp the concept, just don't see the need.

You're a reloader I'm guessing, so I get that. I'm not, so don't even think for a second I'm trying to be an ass about this,,,,,,, wait you thought I was, but I'm not! There's no advantage over the winnie/weatherby, or am I missing something in the reloads?

For me it's like a 35Whelen and a 338-06??????????????????

 

[Pheroze]

Good man I'm not the only one now!!!!

The donor rifle has arrived at the gunsmith and I am waiting to hear back! Stoked!!

Pheroze, brother,,,, I grasp the concept, just don't see the need.

You're a reloader I'm guessing, so I get that. I'm not, so don't even think for a second I'm trying to be an ass about this,,,,,,, wait you thought I was, but I'm not! There's no advantage over the winnie/weatherby, or am I missing something in the reloads?

For me it's like a 35Whelen and a 338-06??????????????????

Way to harsh my mellow!!

Valid questions. I also looked at the 358 Norma Mag btw (I presume a closer affiliation to the 35 bore would suit you better?)

The rationale is as follows: It gives me "more" over the '06, it seems to hover around the 300 H&H to 300 Win Mag in power so it doesn't recoil like the weatherby. Shorter action than both so that is nice. I do reload and the longer neck gives it a great capacity to play with up and down the dial and in weights so that is fun. It's efficient in that I noticed that the Win Mag takes more powder to achieve the same velocity (according to the Hornady manual). No one will be able to guess what it is at moose camp so I might make a few bucks on "guess the cartridge" bets Also, It costs less for me to build this than to purchase a new rifle of equal quality and it is built for me to boot [If you don't factor in the trip to the jewellers with my wife after I told her about this new purchase!]!

I am also one of those rare critters that likes the belt. My 375 H&H with 270 gr bullets comes in just under MOA. I believe that sizing those shoulders just .002 or less really seems to make an accurate shooter. In my fantasy life, I get to take this rifle on a sheep hunt

My three rifle magazine is now 6.5x55, 308 Norma Mag and 375 H&H. I will carry my '06 with me when taking the Norma Mag as a backup in case the ammo goes to West Podunc when I am in Namibia or another place of interest.

 

[DM Shooting]

The moose camp comment rings true every reloader should no in fact NEEDS a rifle that no shop carries ammo for.

Components are easily found 308 bullets Magnum primers powder aplenty and at a stretch 7 RM brass to resize.

 

[Mekaniks]

I like the 308 Norma and almost had one built myself several years ago. It's kind of a handloaders dream. Obscure enough to be intruiging to the average guy, but still uses all readily available components. It performs ballisticlly very well and is really only obsolete because it's so close to the 300 win mag and H&H. There were lots of Springfield 1903 30-06 rifles that were "upgraded" to the 308 Norma in the 60's and early 70's, until the win mags started to really catch on.
All good stuff, congratulations on a cool custom rifle and it looks to me like a good fit in you three rifle battery

 

[35bore]

The donor rifle has arrived at the gunsmith and I am waiting to hear back! Stoked!!


Way to harsh my mellow!!

Valid questions. I also looked at the 358 Norma Mag btw (I presume a closer affiliation to the 35 bore would suit you better?)

The rationale is as follows: It gives me "more" over the '06, it seems to hover around the 300 H&H to 300 Win Mag in power so it doesn't recoil like the weatherby. Shorter action than both so that is nice. I do reload and the longer neck gives it a great capacity to play with up and down the dial and in weights so that is fun. It's efficient in that I noticed that the Win Mag takes more powder to achieve the same velocity (according to the Hornady manual). No one will be able to guess what it is at moose camp so I might make a few bucks on "guess the cartridge" bets Also, It costs less for me to build this than to purchase a new rifle of equal quality and it is built for me to boot [If you don't factor in the trip to the jewellers with my wife after I told her about this new purchase!]!

I am also one of those rare critters that likes the belt. My 375 H&H with 270 gr bullets comes in just under MOA. I believe that sizing those shoulders just .002 or less really seems to make an accurate shooter. In my fantasy life, I get to take this rifle on a sheep hunt

My three rifle magazine is now 6.5x55, 308 Norma Mag and 375 H&H. I will carry my '06 with me when taking the Norma Mag as a backup in case the ammo goes to West Podunc when I am in Namibia or another place of interest.

Again, not trying to be an ass , just more intrigued to the draw to the norma. That's all.

Im quite certain I don't look at the multiple reloading manuals as you guys do. However, the ballistics charts I have looked at, show the norma basically in the same realm as say MOST of the 30 mega mags. I do, I do, I do understand the need for something that most overlook. Just wanted to know what it was drawing him there. I apologize if I seemed harsh in my original response, it wasn't intended that way. Just curious, that's all.

Just a sideline, the 308 win is my GO TO.

 

[Pheroze]

Again, not trying to be an ass , just more intrigued to the draw to the norma. That's all.

Im quite certain I don't look at the multiple reloading manuals as you guys do. However, the ballistics charts I have looked at, show the norma basically in the same realm as say MOST of the 30 mega mags. I do, I do, I do understand the need for something that most overlook. Just wanted to know what it was drawing him there. I apologize if I seemed harsh in my original response, it wasn't intended that way. Just curious, that's all.

Just a sideline, the 308 win is my GO TO.

I didn't take your comment as harsh at all, I was just having fun with it. Honestly when I found out it was invented before all the other modern 300's I tried to figure out why it did not catch on! The reasoning is that it seems to have been built for the reloader and only very few rifles were factory built for it. But it is so easy to convert a Mauser action '06 to it. It would appear that push feed actions cannot be modified as easily. Odd history really.

 

[35bore]

I didn't take your comment as harsh at all, I was just having fun with it. Honestly when I found out it was invented before all the other modern 300's I tried to figure out why it did not catch on! The reasoning is that it seems to have been built for the reloader and only very few rifles were factory built for it. But it is so easy to convert a Mauser action '06 to it. It would appear that push feed actions cannot be modified as easily. Odd history really.

Guess just like the 6mm rem, all about timing.

 

[35bore]

I didn't take your comment as harsh at all, I was just having fun with it. Honestly when I found out it was invented before all the other modern 300's I tried to figure out why it did not catch on! The reasoning is that it seems to have been built for the reloader and only very few rifles were factory built for it. But it is so easy to convert a Mauser action '06 to it. It would appear that push feed actions cannot be modified as easily. Odd history really.

Thanks for not taking offense, the tone of one's thoughts/words are sometimes lost in the text in which it is presented.

I have no room to speak with my "35whatchacallit" (as spike puts it) infatuation, so good luck to you on this endeavour. Keep us posted with the build and range results.

So can you get more, or just the ease of reloading?

 

[Pheroze]

So can you get more, or just the ease of reloading?

I think you mean speed? I believe it maxes out just shy of the win mag. What I have read leads me to believe that it is essentially a short action 300 H&H. My hope is that reloading this very flexible round will allow me to find a balance between more speed and not too much recoil as I take offence to being abused by my rifle. We shall see.

 

[Ray B]

A few of my friends have the 308 Norma equivalent: 30/338 Win Mag. Loading data is virtually interchangeable although the brass isn't. It's a very good choice if wanting to increase the velocity of a .308" bullet.

 

[Pheroze]

...and at a stretch 7 RM brass to resize.

I have never resized brass but my dad has a 7mm RM that I was loading for. I checked the case dimensions and there are slight differences other than neck diameter. Would I just run it through the 308 NM resizing dies, trim to spec and fire it off?

 

[ZG47]

A Lyman M die would probably be a bit less brutal, due to the taper of the button.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I have never resized brass but my dad has a 7mm RM that I was loading for. I checked the case dimensions and there are slight differences other than neck diameter. Would I just run it through the 308 NM resizing dies, trim to spec and fire it off?

Pheroze, also remember that when you come with me to Namibia next year, your brass has to be stamped in .308 Norma. If you arrive at Johannesburg with resized brass, you will more than likely lose your ammunition.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Also, if you have .308Norma Mag brass, you obviously want to look after them. Try and neck size your brass instead of full sizing it every time. It will extend the life of your brass. You also do not have to buy a neck sizer. You can set up your FL die set to only neck size the case.

 

[Pheroze]

Pheroze, also remember that when you come with me to Namibia next year, your brass has to be stamped in .308 Norma. If you arrive at Johannesburg with resized brass, you will more than likely lose your ammunition.

Good advice, thanks! I use the resized brass for practice and save the proper Norma brass I have for the hunt

 

[Pheroze]

Also, if you have .308Norma Mag brass, you obviously want to look after them. Try and neck size your brass instead of full sizing it every time. It will extend the life of your brass. You also do not have to buy a neck sizer. You can set up your FL die set to only neck size the case.

I bought a little measuring device (coffee still has not reached my brain so I can't think of the name) that allows me to resize the brass to just 0.001-0.002 of the chamber dimensions. I have been getting great life from my brass. Even the belted have stayed true though many reloadings. I read about the technique on the GS Customs web page but the measuring tool makes it very fine.

I will probably fire about 40 a couple of times and them load them for the hunt with you. I hope I can source more for practice otherwise I will try resizing.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Good advice, thanks! I use the resized brass for practice and save the proper Norma brass I have for the hunt

Just make sure that they shoot to the same POI, between your practice cases and your hunting cases. Your case preparation is probably the single biggest factor when it comes to accuracy. Factors that I concentrate on is case length as utmost importance. Also weigh your cases , and group them into groups of similar weights. Not all cases stretch the same, so some cases might get trimmed more than others, which in turn means that some cases have thinner walls. I work on a 2 grain variance. So, if the median is 200gr for the case, any case weighing 2 grains over and two grains under get grouped. Different brands of brass have different volume capacity also which affects where it sends the projectile down range.

If you want to do yourself a favor on the case trimmer, look into the Wilson Cutter.

 

[Clayton]

...Try and neck size your brass instead of full sizing it every time. It will extend the life of your brass...

Makes a significant difference in the life of your brass. So long as you have no feeding problems, it works. However there is something to be said for FL Sizing the ammo you intend to hunt with. It provides a little more assurance of trouble free feeding a round. Keep in mind, if something can go wrong, it will. And at the worst time. I don't know if Murphy hunted or not, but his laws do apply.