280 AI and H4831SC

[sgt_zim]

I have GRT to work out loads, similar to QL. But it doesn't have H4831SC in the database.

Can somebody with QL run that powder for a 280AI, assume peterson brass, water capacity 70.6 gr

I have no experience with that powder, but I assume it burns faster than H4831 or IMR4831.

 

[shootist~]

With 140 Gr Nosler AB
24" Barrel 70.6 Grains Water Volume. Otherwise used the QL defaults incl COL at 3.330
[Note Default H2O would have been 74.0 grains.]

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 62.807 grain H2O = 4.078 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831 SC *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 85 49.61 2433 1840 31282 8833 84.3 1.491
-18.0 87 50.85 2497 1938 33496 9152 85.8 1.450
-16.0 89 52.09 2562 2040 35873 9464 87.3 1.410
-14.0 91 53.33 2627 2145 38436 9769 88.7 1.367
-12.0 93 54.57 2693 2254 41192 10066 90.0 1.323
-10.0 95 55.81 2759 2366 44164 10353 91.3 1.280
-08.0 97 57.05 2826 2482 47370 10628 92.5 1.239
-06.0 100 58.29 2893 2601 50834 10890 93.6 1.199
-04.0 102 59.53 2960 2724 54582 11139 94.6 1.160
-02.0 104 60.77 3028 2849 58647 11372 95.6 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 62.01 3095 2979 63056 11587 96.5 1.087 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 108 63.25 3163 3111 67853 11785 97.2 1.053 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

I'll follow with a couple more.

 

[shootist~]

160 Gr Swift A-Frame at same inputs as above - H4831sc in Cases with H2O Volume of 70.6 grains
COL 3.330"
MAX Pressure per QL = 65,000 psi
59.5 Grains Input Below calculated at 62,770 psi

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 160, Swift A-Frame SS
Useable Case Capaci: 62.919 grain H2O = 4.085 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831 SC *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 81 47.61 2320 1913 32928 8991 88.0 1.512
-18.0 83 48.80 2378 2008 35070 9289 89.3 1.475
-16.0 85 49.99 2435 2107 37356 9581 90.5 1.457
-14.0 87 51.18 2493 2208 39806 9865 91.6 1.418
-12.0 89 52.37 2551 2313 42429 10141 92.7 1.381
-10.0 91 53.56 2610 2420 45239 10407 93.8 1.344
-08.0 93 54.75 2669 2531 48257 10661 94.7 1.308
-06.0 95 55.94 2728 2644 51497 10904 95.6 1.272
-04.0 97 57.13 2787 2759 54980 11133 96.4 1.234
-02.0 99 58.32 2846 2878 58732 11347 97.2 1.197 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 101 59.51 2906 2999 62770 11546 97.8 1.161 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 104 60.70 2965 3124 67101 11728 98.4 1.127 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[shootist~]

150 Gr Hornady ELD-X, H4831sc

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 150, Hornady ELD-X 2826
Useable Case Capaci: 61.724 grain H2O = 4.008 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831 SC *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 84 48.40 2373 1876 31762 8838 86.0 1.529
-18.0 86 49.61 2435 1975 33996 9147 87.4 1.487
-16.0 88 50.82 2498 2078 36395 9450 88.8 1.444
-14.0 90 52.03 2561 2184 38973 9744 90.1 1.400
-12.0 93 53.24 2624 2293 41747 10030 91.3 1.355
-10.0 95 54.45 2687 2405 44734 10304 92.5 1.311
-08.0 97 55.66 2751 2521 47953 10567 93.6 1.270
-06.0 99 56.87 2815 2640 51429 10817 94.6 1.229
-04.0 101 58.08 2880 2762 55184 11052 95.6 1.190
-02.0 103 59.29 2944 2887 59249 11271 96.5 1.153 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 105 60.50 3009 3015 63656 11474 97.2 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 107 61.71 3074 3146 68441 11657 97.9 1.081 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[sgt_zim]

TYVM! meant to specify SAF 160, you beat me to it.

Peterson's spec sheet sez 70.6. I haven't measured yet, but probably reliable info, considering it's Peterson.

Also, Partition 150 and Hornady GMX 150, if you don't mind.

 

[shootist~]

For funzies, I switched the powder for the 150 Gr ELD-X to regular H4831 and the pressure and velocity figures did not change. The % compression for the same nominal load of 60.5 grains changed from 105.2% with H4831sc to 109.4% w/ H4831.

 

[shootist~]

No Problemo:
150 Grain GMX:

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 150, Hornady GMX 2828
Useable Case Capaci: 60.235 grain H2O = 3.911 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831 SC *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 85 47.60 2365 1862 31845 8642 85.7 1.525
-18.0 87 48.79 2426 1961 34082 8944 87.1 1.482
-16.0 89 49.98 2489 2063 36483 9241 88.5 1.441
-14.0 91 51.17 2551 2168 39070 9530 89.8 1.399
-12.0 93 52.36 2614 2276 41854 9810 91.1 1.354
-10.0 95 53.55 2678 2388 44846 10079 92.3 1.311
-08.0 98 54.74 2741 2503 48086 10338 93.4 1.269
-06.0 100 55.93 2806 2622 51579 10583 94.4 1.229
-04.0 102 57.12 2870 2743 55361 10815 95.4 1.190 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 104 58.31 2934 2868 59456 11031 96.3 1.152 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 59.50 2999 2996 63899 11230 97.1 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 108 60.69 3064 3127 68733 11411 97.8 1.080 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 110 61.88 3129 3261 73986 11573 98.4 1.046 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 112 63.07 3194 3399 79747 11713 98.9 1.013 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[shootist~]

150 Nosler Partition, H4831sc. Per QL.

artridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 150, Nosler PART SP 16326
Useable Case Capaci: 63.720 grain H2O = 4.137 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831 SC *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 83 49.36 2382 1890 31747 9099 86.3 1.528
-18.0 85 50.59 2444 1989 33965 9416 87.7 1.486
-16.0 87 51.83 2506 2092 36344 9726 89.1 1.444
-14.0 89 53.06 2569 2198 38898 10028 90.4 1.400
-12.0 91 54.30 2632 2307 41642 10321 91.6 1.355
-10.0 94 55.53 2695 2419 44592 10602 92.8 1.312
-08.0 96 56.76 2759 2535 47769 10872 93.9 1.270
-06.0 98 58.00 2823 2654 51195 11128 94.9 1.230
-04.0 100 59.23 2887 2775 54891 11369 95.8 1.192
-02.0 102 60.47 2951 2900 58883 11594 96.6 1.154 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 104 61.70 3015 3028 63206 11801 97.4 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 106 62.93 3080 3159 67888 11990 98.1 1.083 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 108 64.17 3144 3292 72945 12158 98.6 1.050 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[shootist~]

Hopefully someone else with QuickLoad will spot-check a couple of the above to see if we get the same numbers.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Use H4831 data, the data is the same.

 

[sestoppelman]

I am not very impressed with those loads. In a standard .280 Rem with 24 inch barrel I could get nearly 3200fps with a 140, 0ver 3K with a 150, over 2900 with a 160 and 2850 with a 175gr.
I used old H4831, this was some years ago with the 160 Nosler and loaded 61.5 grs. I think the newer stuff might be a little faster, not sure, but it seems like it.
With 145gr Speers I used to load 57 grs of IMR4350. Dont recall the speed but it was very accurate, won a couple of Sporting Rifle matches with that load.
I would have thought the AI would do better than that with the larger case.
Of course the chrono tells the real story, the computer just makes educated guess's.

 

[sgt_zim]

I am not very impressed with those loads. In a standard .280 Rem with 24 inch barrel I could get nearly 3200fps with a 140, 0ver 3K with a 150, over 2900 with a 160 and 2850 with a 175gr.
I used old H4831, this was some years ago with the 160 Nosler and loaded 61.5 grs. I think the newer stuff might be a little faster, not sure, but it seems like it.
With 145gr Speers I used to load 57 grs of IMR4350. Dont recall the speed but it was very accurate, won a couple of Sporting Rifle matches with that load.
I would have thought the AI would do better than that with the larger case.
Of course the chrono tells the real story, the computer just makes educated guess's.

That's about where we are now. My best friend and I both bought 280AI last spring, just now getting around to working up loads. I'm pretty comfortable with IMR 4831, but my bud's got H4831SC.

We'll see what his lab radar says. And honestly, I'll be very happy with 1 MOA and 2850 fps.

My buddy is doing LD on SAF 160, NP 150, and GMX 150.

I've got SAF 160 and Oryx 156. Kind of annoyed by the really low BC of Oryx, but in my 9.3x62, Oryx is THE most accurate bullet I've tested. If neither of those work out, I'll probably buy a box of Hammer Hunters and see what I can get out of those.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have GRT to work out loads, similar to QL. But it doesn't have H4831SC in the database.

Can somebody with QL run that powder for a 280AI, assume peterson brass, water capacity 70.6 gr

I have no experience with that powder, but I assume it burns faster than H4831 or IMR4831.

@sgt zim
H4831 and H4831SC have exactly the same burn rate. The sc just stands for short cut and was done to make metering out of a volumetric thrower easier.
It is slower than imr4831.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I am not very impressed with those loads. In a standard .280 Rem with 24 inch barrel I could get nearly 3200fps with a 140, 0ver 3K with a 150, over 2900 with a 160 and 2850 with a 175gr.
I used old H4831, this was some years ago with the 160 Nosler and loaded 61.5 grs. I think the newer stuff might be a little faster, not sure, but it seems like it.
With 145gr Speers I used to load 57 grs of IMR4350. Dont recall the speed but it was very accurate, won a couple of Sporting Rifle matches with that load.
I would have thought the AI would do better than that with the larger case.
Of course the chrono tells the real story, the computer just makes educated guess's.

@sestoppelman
Ses that I found with the Whelen and the Whelen AI. the AI needed More powder for the same velocity and the Whelen seemed to be a far better cartridge grain for grain.
The 28AI is one sexy cartridge tho.

 

[HuntingGold]

I didn't have a lot of time to work up loads last fall. I think Nosler listed 55 grains of H4831sc as the most accurate so I tried it and here is the 200 yard target. I called it good enough and a bit later shot a dandy Blacktail with the same load.

 

[sestoppelman]

Velocity is probably about 2750 fps in a 24" barrel?

 

[C.W. Richter]

For funzies, I switched the powder for the 150 Gr ELD-X to regular H4831 and the pressure and velocity figures did not change. The % compression for the same nominal load of 60.5 grains changed from 105.2% with H4831sc to 109.4% w/ H4831.

It's the same exact powder, simply cut into smaller rods (typically to jam more powder into smaller cases. SC/SSC short cut/super short cut.) Typ not an issue with 06 and up cases. Better to fill to 100%+/- capacity with std. cut powder.

 

[HuntingGold]

Velocity is probably about 2750 fps in a 24" barrel?

I didn't own a chrono then but do now. I have a 26" barrel on that gun. Now that I'm back from Africa, I'll put the 35 Whelen away and start working on this load development with the 280 AI again

 

[HuntingGold]

Off the topic of 4831... But at the same time I was working on the 4831sc load, I was also working on a load with Vihtavouri N560. I found 8 lbs of it (sealed) in an estate and decided to give it a go. I'd like to shrink this down a bit and use it... I'd like to save the H4831sc as it's my favorite in the 270.

 

[YancyW]

I am not very impressed with those loads. In a standard .280 Rem with 24 inch barrel I could get nearly 3200fps with a 140, 0ver 3K with a 150, over 2900 with a 160 and 2850 with a 175gr.
I used old H4831, this was some years ago with the 160 Nosler and loaded 61.5 grs. I think the newer stuff might be a little faster, not sure, but it seems like it.
With 145gr Speers I used to load 57 grs of IMR4350. Dont recall the speed but it was very accurate, won a couple of Sporting Rifle matches with that load.
I would have thought the AI would do better than that with the larger case.
Of course the chrono tells the real story, the computer just makes educated guess's.

Just for reference, with my 175gr berger load, I am getting around 125fps faster. Now, I'm not sure of any hunting scenario in the world where that would matter, but that's one of my favorite loads in my 280ai.