Why no love for the .358 Win?

[ChrisG]

For me, it fills the gap between my ruger 6.5x55 and my .375 Ruger. Terry Pollard (my elk outfitter) sort of scoffed at me when I said I was going to bring my 6.5 swede for my hunt. The only step up I had was my .375 H&H (which was way too nice to be dropped into a horse scabbard). So I bought a .300 win mag. I didnt really like it so it went down the road and there I was again with a gap to fill (it may simply be a gap in my mind). Someone last year recommended the .358 to me. For some reason I fell in love with the cartridge. It seemed to be a pretty good amount of power without overlapping excessively with my .375 and in a light, easy to carry gun.

I believe the .358 is geared toward bolt guns. The .356 Win is the same cartridge but with a rim for use in leverguns and single shots. I am under no delusions that it is a dangerous game gun (although I think it would work really well on leopard). It is in there with the exceptional .264 Win mag 8mm Rem. mag, all but relegated to the dustbin, but still an exceptional and efficient cartridge for the level of power it puts out.

It is also nice to know that it will put down a water buff with some solids in a pinch!

 

[Rick HOlbert]

They will both shoot 250 grains at 2300+. I don't think anyone can argue with the 348s record on grizzly bear and even the smaller of the coastal browns. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the big Kenai and Kodiaks have been taken with it. That really tells you everything you need to know.

Yes sir, that about says it all. enjoyed talking with you and others on this subject.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

penetrative as a playdough teacup, that there is funny, I don't care who you are.

The 358 is Well on its way to 80 years old, and was made to put a big bore into a sweet lever action and (I suspect) make a cartridge that beats the 35 Remington while being on a brand new platform that was common with 2 other cartridges (243 and 308.)

@noby72
The 358 win came out in 1955 in the Winchester 88. It was meant as a replacement for the old 348 and match or exceed the old 348s balistics. This it did. Even with the old cup and core 250 grain it gave pretty good performance.
Bob

 

[Shootist43]

Noyb72, the 348's reputation on bear is one of the main reasons I bought my Model 71. In fact, she still hits the woods from time to time, iron sights and all.

 

[MS 9x56]

As I recall, Winchester first offered the .358 cartridge in the Model 70 Featherweight and the Model 88 lever action, both of which were relatively light weight rifles (6 1/2-6 3/4 pounds). The Savage 99 in the same caliber weighed much the same. The amount of recoil generated caused the cartridge to have a bad reputation.

I have had a custom .358 built on a 1937 Oberndorf Mauser for around 60 years now and I think it is a fine little cartridge. My rifle is part of a three gun set, all built on the same actions, in caliber 6.5X.308 (now legitimized as the .260 Remington) the .308 and the .358. I have killed deer with all three and all are equally effective.

I love hunting with all 35 caliber rifles but to your question. I can’t speak to Africa but the biggest obstacle to its popularity in the US is we have way too many shooters who are recoil averse. Plain and simple go to any range and observe shooting form and function. Many hunters have had little to no training in proper form , trigger and sight, and breathing control. Video games are not a good platform for learning marksmanship. Less than 5% of our population have ever served in the armed forces or recieved any formal firearms training. We are no longer a nation of hunters. More is the pity.

 

[RTG]

I love the .358 Winchester cartridge. It just wasn't offered in many guns that I want to own.

 

[MS 9x56]

I would love to find a pre 64 model 70 or a savage model 99 in 358.

 

[ChrisG]

You could always get the gun you want in a 243, 260,7mm-08 or .308 and send it to JES in Oregon and have him rebore it. I have a Mauser with double set triggers on the way to him as of today. He is also going to cut the barrel at 22" and recrown. $275. Its really hard to beat.

 

[Rick Cox]

My biggest problem with the .358 Winchester is the sectional density of the bullet - particular for anything bigger than whitetail or average black bear. Even with the 225 gr bullet, the load is light for caliber with sectional density around .25. That is a prescription for inadequate penetration on larger animals, particular if the presentation isn't perfect or the shot has to drive through heavy bone. Even the the 180 gr .308 reaches a SD of .27. Add to that the rounds low velocity and the penetration issues quickly compound not very far beyond the muzzle.

A thoughtful answer as always. The sectional density of a 225 gr, Accubond is not that much less than a 180 grain 30 caliber. I have no idea how the difference would affect penetration, but I used to own a .358 in a Winchester lever action, and used it to successfully kill deer, black bear and moose. It always seemed to hammer them, but I don't recall any shots over 100 yards. This was 40 years ago, and I don't remember the ammunition brand or details. My experience with that gun did lead me to the two 35 Whelens I have today that I have used here in Northern BC and in Namibia to good success. No issues with penetration.

 

[Alaska Luke]

I have a 358 and like it a lot BUT it's a niche cartridge.

Mine is a heavily modified Ruger American that weighs 5.5 pounds without a scope with a 16 inch barrel. It currently has an old Weaver 1-3 scope on it for a total weight of 6.5 pounds.

For me it's the lightest and smallest rifle that I would consider shooting a grizzly with. A 225 grain Swift A Frame at 2400 no fps is about like a heavy 30-06 load but in a smaller package (I doubt a 30-06 with a 16 inch barrel would be as effective). Of course it's not a long range rifle. I carry it on scouting trips and trips where I'm not the primary shooter.

If you skip big bears there is really nothing a 358 can do that a 308 can't do about as well. Yes a 358 probably does kill a bit faster at woods ranges but not a lot more. That's probably why it wasn't more popular. Anything a 358 can do a 308 or 7mm-08 will also do and a bit more efficiently.

 

[MS 9x56]

Being a meat hunter one of my favorite qualities of the 358 is that it does not ruin a lot of meat. It also leaves blood trails Ray Charles could follow and they tend to be short. I just wish there was a wider choice in billets available for reloading.

 

[Alaska Luke]

Yes more bullet selection would help a lot. The available bullets mostly have a low SD and BC but they don't have to.

 

[IvW]

No comparison to a 9.3mm .366 for Africa anyway.....

 

[ChrisG]

No comparison to a 9.3mm .366 for Africa anyway.....

Well yeah... the .308 is no comparison for the .338 win mag either. The 9.3 has more case capacity, a larger bore, and utilizes heavier bullets. Not really a fair comparison.

 

[MS 9x56]

No comparison to a 9.3mm .366 for Africa anyway.....

I use and like both quite well actually but I don’t hunt DG.

 

[freefall]

So this has been going on for 5 pages now. The people that own .358s like them. The people that don't like them have never used one. Seeing any patterns here?
Didn't think so. Carry on.

 

[noyb72]

So this has been going on for 5 pages now. The people that own .358s like them. The people that don't like them have never used one. Seeing any patterns here?
Didn't think so. Carry on.

That's perfect.
I have to keep it going though...
I'm just saying, a 358 would shoot flatter and have higher sectional density (couldn't resist ) than a 9.3x51. I actually have read a post by someone considering creating that wildcat and I can't for the life of me figure out why other than to be really different, which is fine. Talk about bullet selection issues, thy name is 9.3x51. I totally understand wanting to ensure you are the only guy that shows up in camp with that cartridge, but I am comfortable saying that 9.3x57 would get you there much easier.

If the comment was concerning 9.3x57 or x64 then I agree, pretty different animal. Compare it to the 9x57 or 35 Whelan instead.

 

[CoElkHunter]

That's perfect.
I have to keep it going though...
I'm just saying, a 358 would shoot flatter and have higher sectional density (couldn't resist ) than a 9.3x51. I actually have read a post by someone considering creating that wildcat and I can't for the life of me figure out why other than to be really different, which is fine. Talk about bullet selection issues, thy name is 9.3x51. I totally understand wanting to ensure you are the only guy that shows up in camp with that cartridge, but I am comfortable saying that 9.3x57 would get you there much easier.

If the comment was concerning 9.3x57 or x64 then I agree, pretty different animal. Compare it to the 9x57 or 35 Whelan instead.

Yes, keep it GOING! I'll be here all night! LOL

 

[IvW]

That's perfect.
I have to keep it going though...
I'm just saying, a 358 would shoot flatter and have higher sectional density (couldn't resist ) than a 9.3x51. I actually have read a post by someone considering creating that wildcat and I can't for the life of me figure out why other than to be really different, which is fine. Talk about bullet selection issues, thy name is 9.3x51. I totally understand wanting to ensure you are the only guy that shows up in camp with that cartridge, but I am comfortable saying that 9.3x57 would get you there much easier.

If the comment was concerning 9.3x57 or x64 then I agree, pretty different animal. Compare it to the 9x57 or 35 Whelan instead.

Who uses a 9.3x51......for what?

 

[noyb72]

Who uses a 9.3x51......for what?

I don't believe anyone has made one, I was just in a conversation with someone who was interested in putting one together for the novelty. I was just saying that a 9.3x57 or 64 isn't comparable to a 358 Win. They don't fit the same guns, for one thing. The bullet availability is (I understand it) totally different in different parts of the world, just apples to oranges.