Live Animal Relocation to USA

[Wishfulthinker580]

You simply are blind to the conservation value of what we do. Did you know that Arabian Orxy were repatriated to the Arabian Peninsula and are now in hunt able numbers? Did you know that Scimitar Horned Orxy have been sent to Senegal and are now growing in number? I could go on but some of yall don't care.
I understand that it is stupid to hunt a Kudu in Texas for $20k. It's a free market and people pay dumb prices for things in our society all the time.

That’s all well and good but those are exceptions to the rule. Also, you’ve got quite the vested financial interest in defending this stuff. I’m all not to keen on taking a lecture on conservation from someone who defends CBL…..

 

[ActionBob]

That’s all well and good but those are exceptions to the rule. Also, you’ve got quite the vested financial interest in defending this stuff. I’m all not to keen on taking a lecture on conservation from someone who defends CBL…..

I have no love for CBL. However it is hard to argue that the practice does maintain a supply of Lions in the World. Now seriously, lions are not really in danger of going extinct in the wild under current circumstances. There are healthy populations in well managed areas. However CBL does maintain more lions on Earth that would be without the practice.

And I do believe @Philip Glass hunted a wild lion. In fact from my memory the lion segment of the Trophy movie was the absolute best part for making hunters' case.

 

[ActionBob]

Sheep or cattle (or any other livestock) are largely beneficial. If the exotics are not for hunting then they’ve entered into the mostly useless/hobby realm (which I don’t like either). I see a big difference in keeping domesticated animals and keeping exotics.

My main beef is the hunting part. I’d rather see the dollars go to actual conservation in Africa (or wherever and if possible or not at all) because it does in fact take resources away from actual conservation.

Cape buffalo are here now (something like $80,000 for one hunt I saw IIRC) and if I’m not terribly mistaken Kevin Robertson is playing some role with them at one ranch.

I’d rather a species be unattainable than attainable if the experience is lessened.

First off I do not believe that hunting in Texas takes away any significant amounts of money spent hunting in Africa. It may even enhance it as it peaks interest.

I watched a video, and stayed at a Holiday Inn express, so I'm an expert on this subject A Cape buffalo "hunt" in Texas that I saw was being done by an elderly gentleman whom I doubt could have done it in Africa. Probably would have had a challenge just making the flight. That was by no stretch of the imagination a hunt that most of us would want to do. However it was something that gentleman obviously wanted to do. It was his money, his experience, legal.

Nothing pisses me off more than younger people being all high and mighty as to how an older person spends THEIR money! Dammit they worked for it, they should spend it how they see fit. Well, ok, liberals and the government wasting my tax money pisses me off more... but you should get the point.

 

[ACE (in CT)]

I’m surprised that there has been no mention of the population of feral Hippos in Colombia. Pablo Escobar had a few and when he died they either escaped or were released. There are over 200 now and growing and spreading out. Only a matter of time before someone brings a few here, and/or opens up a South American Hippo safari.

 

[Firebird]

Trying to decide if this thread is about animal relocation or human nature. . .

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

First off I do not believe that hunting in Texas takes away any significant amounts of money spent hunting in Africa. It may even enhance it as it peaks interest.

I watched a video, and stayed at a Holiday Inn express, so I'm an expert on this subject A Cape buffalo "hunt" in Texas that I saw was being done by an elderly gentleman whom I doubt could have done it in Africa. Probably would have had a challenge just making the flight. That was by no stretch of the imagination a hunt that most of us would want to do. However it was something that gentleman obviously wanted to do. It was his money, his experience, legal.

Nothing pisses me off more than younger people being all high and mighty as to how an older person spends THEIR money! Dammit they worked for it, they should spend it how they see fit. Well, ok, liberals and the government wasting my tax money pisses me off more... but you should get the point.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Or just disagree and you’ll have to remain pissed off .

The ability or inability for someone to do something does not justify it to me. Let’s not make this about age or class. I’m not.. That outlook of spend it how you see fit falls pretty flat when you apply it to other facets of life. In that way this is a pretty good thread about the nature of humanity..

 

[ActionBob]

That outlook of spend it how you see fit falls pretty flat when you apply it to other facets of life.

How?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

How?

I’m sure there is something that you object to spending their money on? I’m sure you object to things people may do even though it’s legal? Even if you never voice it? I think it’s safe to say that the majority of people object to something at some point. I’m saying there isn’t much consistency with saying that on this one topic and then not applying it to anything else.

It’s funny that a group that is largely conservative in most areas always seems to have a majority that use typical liberal arguments to defend their actions. Which is why I commented earlier about human nature. It’s pretty consistent across the board

 

[John Wasmuth]

Blackbuck, although historically plentiful in Texas, were wiped out in the deep freeze a few years ago. Supply and demand.
They are another species that has has been repatriated to their homeland from Texas along with many, many others.

True that winter storm Uri took a major toll on black buck, nilgai, and axis deer, but they breed like rabbits and the population, at least around here, have recovered well. We even lost whitetail from that storm.

 

[Lone Star Bluegrass]

Is it me? Or did the temperature get really hot in here all of the sudden?

 

[John Wasmuth]

Could be ^ ya

 

[steve white]

Game management is complicated; so complicated that popular vote should seldom be allowed to screw it up! The mule deer from Palo Duro canyon through its tributaries running east for 100+ miles are being pushed out by the white tail deer. State leased, old Type II lands have long had special hunts to reduce white tail does, in order to protect mule deer numbers. Nobody seems to know why the mulies are suffering decline. It would be hard to justify any introduced competition. In other instances, there is room to take on board the endangered species out there.

Some animals, like the elephant and rhino are depressingly in decline in certain African countries. It makes my brain hurt to think of how much land elephants require, and how far they will migrate if they have their way unimpeded. It would be hard to envision that much set aside for them in another country, or how to contain them to areas. And it is hard to imagine the impact that an exploding human population in Africa will have on them in the future, hence the depression about it. All who care are doing their best to save them. Some do-gooders are complicating things by excluding hunting as a valid conservation tool. A real problem is that big five animals are dangerous to humans. We don't live in a world that tolerates getting our grand daughters stomped or eaten by something which they happened to stumble onto. It is a wonder that Africans tolerate them at all by some metrics. They, like us, make a conscious decision if it is worth it. At some times "if it pays it stays" comes into play. My opinion is that humans should stay out of farming and such in big five areas. But that takes land, lots of it, and whether in Africa or India, man is always encroaching, ever greedy for more. I hope it never becomes a bridge too far, because humans will lose something precious if wildness is lost. Large portions of true wilderness should be set aside, inviolate.

Wilderness by reserves in Africa was envisioned to be some kind of "Ark" where game would survive the onslaught of "civilization."Corrupt officials of said civilization proved to be more a danger from within than a projected danger from poaching without! If there ever is a world tax, some ought to be used for an internationally funded game protection scheme of sufficient size and scope to guarantee success against all poaching. The justification would concern a world heritage site in principle. But you need protection against corruption at the same scale and with teeth that put fear in national leadership as well. That will probably take more money than local economies can tally.

I am glad some species have been saved from extinction by importation to the US. I'm for others being introduced IF they do not threaten the ecosystem, so to speak. But it is a Pandora's box with unintended consequences, and sometimes the most stupid actions have been by governmental fish and wildlife agencies!

 

[ActionBob]

Is it me? Or did the temperature get really hot in here all of the sudden?

Na it's barely even warm

 

[ActionBob]

I’m sure there is something that you object to spending their money on? I’m sure you object to things people may do even though it’s legal? Even if you never voice it? I think it’s safe to say that the majority of people object to something at some point. I’m saying there isn’t much consistency with saying that on this one topic and then not applying it to anything else.

It’s funny that a group that is largely conservative in most areas always seems to have a majority that use typical liberal arguments to defend their actions. Which is why I commented earlier about human nature. It’s pretty consistent across the board

The context i meant it in is that someone who has discretionary funds available and wants to for example spend $80,000 to shoot a Cape buffalo in Texas.... should damned well be able to go do it!

I assume he earned it.. but even if he inherited it it is his. I'm sure he's paid his taxes on it. My tax guy likes to talk about how much money we can "release". In other words get it to the after tax category so it can be discretionary.

And what is liberal about defending personal rights and land owners rights?

 

[John Wasmuth]

I’m not sure why I’m supposed to be concerned about how someone spends their money as long as it’s theirs and not mine….

 

[Flbt]

I’m surprised that there has been no mention of the population of feral Hippos in Colombia. Pablo Escobar had a few and when he died they either escaped or were released. There are over 200 now and growing and spreading out. Only a matter of time before someone brings a few here, and/or opens up a South American Hippo safari.

Years ago the sate of La. Was talking about farming large scale with hippos
I was told about it not long ago
But if they did I bet the Mississippi delta would be a different place today

 

[Flbt]

I’m surprised that there has been no mention of the population of feral Hippos in Colombia. Pablo Escobar had a few and when he died they either escaped or were released. There are over 200 now and growing and spreading out. Only a matter of time before someone brings a few here, and/or opens up a South American Hippo safari.

The La. Hippo farming was being conciserd around 1910
For a affordable meat
The water pig bacon was supposed to be better than pork
Lol

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

The context i meant it in is that someone who has discretionary funds available and wants to for example spend $80,000 to shoot a Cape buffalo in Texas.... should damned well be able to go do it!

I assume he earned it.. but even if he inherited it it is his. I'm sure he's paid his taxes on it. My tax guy likes to talk about how much money we can "release". In other words get it to the after tax category so it can be discretionary.

And what is liberal about defending personal rights and land owners rights?

I understand the context you intended and I don’t think he should be able to..

Nobody is talking about personal rights or land owners rights except for Philip.. Which is wild (and weird). He came in from waay out in left field with that one. I’m over here talking about how a 5 year probably shouldn’t be alone with a pellet gun and he comes in shouting about how I’m going after the 2nd amendment…

Everything is a “right” these days. Let’s not confuse or conflate rights and privileges. It’s funny how when sensitive threads like these pop up people begin to obfuscate and conflate and try and extend everything to the extremes in order to deflect and muddy the waters.

Personally, I think exotics are one of the few things that should be more strictly regulated…..

All I’m saying is that the exotics industry (mainly the hunting side of it and primarily the high fenced version of that) in the US is grotesque and an abomination . Not all of it is bad but the good does not outweigh the bad IMO and therefore does not justify the whole..

Apparently that makes me no better than “the antis” or PETA to Philip.. Whatever.. I care about as much for his opinion as I do for the View’s opinion on conservatives. Anyone who condones CBL doesn’t have an ethical leg to stand on. Not to mention the conflict of interest in that his bread is buttered to some extent by the exotics business.

On the liberals topic. If you object to something they do they immediately whine about how everyone should mind their business and it’s ok if it’s legal yada yada yada. It’s the same thing with this type of stuff. Which is why I said human nature is pretty consistent across the board.

 

[Philip Glass]

True that winter storm Uri took a major toll on black buck, nilgai, and axis deer, but they breed like rabbits and the population, at least around here, have recovered well. We even lost whitetail from that storm.

I've always been lucky and have never suffered major winter kill. I feel for those who have. You are right that blackbuck breed quickly. They have a baby every 5 months!

 

[Philip Glass]

That’s all well and good but those are exceptions to the rule. Also, you’ve got quite the vested financial interest in defending this stuff. I’m all not to keen on taking a lecture on conservation from someone who defends CBL…..

Exceptions to the rule? The conservation success on private land in Texas can not be contested. I have a vested interest in private property rights. If it were not for the fenced, private ownership of game in South Africa AH would not exist. Their model mirrors ours and it's all about private property rights.