458 Lott Vs 500/416 Nitro Express what one is best for a first big bore rifle

[Harrison E]

hi guys

In the future i hope to be fortunate enough to shoot elephant, rhino and cape buffalo. to do this i realize i am going to need a rifle .375 or larger but personally i would prefer to have a larger rifle than a .375 for example a 458 Lott or a 500/416 nitro express. i would love to own both rifles eventually but i would like to know which one would be better to start off with.

 

[Patrick R]

Welcome to AH!

Damn, those big ones are 'kickers' or perhaps i am a softy...NORTHING wrong with a .375

 

[Harrison E]

i agree with you in the sense that there is nothing wrong with a .375 but i just want that reassuring factor of what ever i point the rifle at is going to stop when i shoot be it charging or not

 

[Patrick R]

the pro - bigger will probably stop anything in their tracks; if you know 'how to use it'

the con - if you don't know how to shoot with the 'big stuff', it is going to be difficult to stop anything...

Not to 'burst your bubble', but seen many hunters with the biggest baddest rifle's and NOT knowing what to do with them when the S#%T hits the fan...I rather hunt with someone that has propper shot placement, premuim bullets and know his rifle then a hunters that looks the baddest motherf..ker in the world...JUST MY 2CENTS..

 

[Harrison E]

i couldnt agree with you more about the shot placement especially when there is a bull elephant charging at you

 

[bassasdaindia]

your first "big" rifle should be a 375 h&h

then look at larger like 416 Rigby or upwards .

 

[Velo Dog]

your first "big" rifle should be a 375 h&h

then look at larger like 416 Rigby or upwards .

+1 .

 

[richteb]

My advice is, try and have shot first. There is great deal of difference in shooting 375 and 416. Going to 458 lott is huge step again. Despite on what other advice you get try before you buy as we all tolerate recoil differently.

 

[Harrison E]

thanks richteb i like the advice on try before you buy

 

[sestoppelman]

Before I ever went for the Lott, I would try the Win mag. 458, it kicks hard enough but will do the job just fine. You might look at the bigger cased .40's like the various .416's or the .404 Jeff which is actually a .423 caliber, great ballistics and very manageable. Or perhaps a .450-400, same thing.

 

[spike.t]

depends also if you are wanting a double rifle or bolt action ? i have 2 .458lotts and they are quite fierce if you dont want to get a .375 i tend to agree with the people who suggest getting a .416 rigby or .404 jeffery as they are plenty big enough for any of the big stuff and more usable generally than the .458 lott or win. in the double then the 500/416 could be the way to go but i dont have any experience with it. matt has been shooting his newly purchased one and says its not too bad to shoot so could be worth a look. but as has been said try and get to have a go with these calibres before buying, as it could be a bit of an eye opener when you let off the first shot and cause for a rethink.

 

[Code4]

Seen the price and availability of 500/416 ammo ? That will decide you.

 

[matt85]

if you dont reload, Superior ammunition makes 500/416 NE in a number of flavors for a little over $10 a shot.

as for your first big bore... the 375 H&H is the ideal starting cartridge. its inexpensive to shoot, easy to reload, and will help build your recoil tolerance. jumping strait to a 458 Lott wont do you any favors. you need to build up to a cartridge like that. i work with a guy who went out an bought a CZ in 458 Lott as his first big bore. he fired the gun twice and its been collecting dust ever since (for what ever reason he wont sell it to me).

from my limited experience here is my take on recoil:
lighest - heaviest (just some common samples)

1. 375 H&H, 450/400 NE
2. 416 (Rem, Rigby, Ruger, NE), 458 WIN, 450 NE, 470 NE
3. 458 Lott, 500 NE, 500 Jeffery, 505 Gibbs
4. 500 Jeffery (hot), 505 Gibbs (hot), 577 NE
5. 600 NE and 700 NE

-matt

 

[Jumbo]

My 2 cents, I would definitely shoot the Lott first, my experience with a bolt weight rifle in that calibre was that it was damn unpleasant to shoot.

My .470NE is a pleasure to shoot, but that lightweight Lott was not fun. So I guess weight is critical to whichever choice you elect, but I guess as was said earlier, its really a choice about bolt or double..................and for my money.....................just buy a .450NE! that's the classic!!!

 

[Tanks]

I really disagree on the recoil. It depends on the stock design. I just came from a black bear hunt where I used a wildcat .500 cartridge (.500 MDM). I was shooting 335gr CEB bullets at 2800 ft/sec generating 68ft/lbs of recoil energy. The guides were afraid of it until they shot it after the hunt was over and were amazed that they hardly felt the recoil (to them it was a push not a kick). Now, with 500gr solids at 2450 ft/secs (elephant load), the recoil energy is 96ft/lbs. However, it is still a push and very manageable. The rifle is 8.75 lbs by the way. Not to mention at the time of the hunt one will not feel anything anyway .

 

[matt85]

a 500gr bullet at 2450fps is not a "mild" load by any stretch of the imagination. also, a 8.75 lb gun is too light to be shooting such loads for most people.

-matt

 

[Velo Dog]

I really disagree on the recoil. It depends on the stock design. I just came from a black bear hunt where I used a wildcat .500 cartridge (.500 MDM). I was shooting 335gr CEB bullets at 2800 ft/sec generating 68ft/lbs of recoil energy. The guides were afraid of it until they shot it after the hunt was over and were amazed that they hardly felt the recoil (to them it was a push not a kick). Now, with 500gr solids at 2450 ft/secs (elephant load), the recoil energy is 96ft/lbs. However, it is still a push and very manageable. The rifle is 8.75 lbs by the way. Not to mention at the time of the hunt one will not feel anything anyway .

Sounds like your above described 8.75 Lb rifle and 500 gr solids at 2450 fps should be somewhere around "brutal" in the recoil department.

 

[Velo Dog]

I really disagree on the recoil. It depends on the stock design. I just came from a black bear hunt where I used a wildcat .500 cartridge (.500 MDM). I was shooting 335gr CEB bullets at 2800 ft/sec generating 68ft/lbs of recoil energy. The guides were afraid of it until they shot it after the hunt was over and were amazed that they hardly felt the recoil (to them it was a push not a kick). Now, with 500gr solids at 2450 ft/secs (elephant load), the recoil energy is 96ft/lbs. However, it is still a push and very manageable. The rifle is 8.75 lbs by the way. Not to mention at the time of the hunt one will not feel anything anyway .

Seems like your 8.75 lb rifle, firing 500 grain solids at 2400 fps would be just about square within the "brutal recoil" category.

 

[Harrison E]

i was planning on both rifles being a Kilimanjaro rifle with a wooden stock, mercury recoil reducer in the stock and a muzzle break

 

[matt85]

lose the muzzle break and it sounds like a plan. muzzle breaks are extremely rude to the other people around you and aren't required for hunting.

-matt