Flat point copper solids for hunting mule deer?

Good afternoon esteemed Africa hunters,
In the great state of Utah, I've managed to draw a mule deer tag for my preferred area with fewer than the normal requisite number of points, only because they've increased the number of tags for that area. It appears that my lovely early teenage twin daughters have also drawn tags, as well as my two sons. There will be a lot of deer meat in the freezer this year. Since the need for meat will be diminished this year, whether or not I shoot a deer has become less important. More important is how I shoot a deer.
Traditionally I've used my 7mm mag, 30.06, 30-30, or whatever rifle fit the profile of a "deer rifle". One of my frustrations with using many of these rifles is the amount of meat that can get wasted from good shock/expansion characteristics from lightning speed bullets, sometimes damaging an entire quarter of the deer or more. It's an argument for a different day, but it seems a lot of the modern high speed cartridges with good expanding projectiles can leave an excessively huge sized exit wound--way more than necessary for an ethical kill at the expense of damaged meat.
I turn to you, my fellow Africa hunters, many of which know way more about terminal ballistics than myself including one Canadian who is accused of having written a book titled "I know everything" (who's opinion I have come to highly value and who's posts I enjoy reading). I am planning to use my .45 long colt rifle to hunt deer with this year, and I am thinking of using a flat point 300 grain solid copper bullet made by Lehigh Defense. The preferred, but not required, bullet material for the area I hunt in is non-lead due to a threatened condor species. I do my part to help preserve the species, and I generally prefer solid coppers anyway, usually the TSX variety made by Barnes. There aren't very many non-lead .452 diameter bullets options available. The aforementioned Lehigh Defense bullet would have zero expansion, so shot placement is obviously important but shouldn't be a problem for me as most shots are 100 yds or less. I know plenty here would balk at the low energy of the .45 colt, however, it would be loaded in the "Ruger only" 30,000 psi loads. I estimate around 1200-1300 fps and a tad over 1000 ft/lbs at the muzzle.
The questions I have then are: first, am I wrong in believing that a solid non-expanding flat point bullet pushed at lower velocities will destroy less meat, and second, will the comparatively larger diameter of the .45 colt bullet compensate for the lack of expansion and offer an ethically fast enough kill assuming the shot is well placed?
Thank you

Are solids legal where you hunt? I know non-expanding bullets are prohibited in my area

Aaron N said:

Are solids legal where you hunt? I know non-expanding bullets are prohibited in my area

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I hadn't even thought about this. As it turns out expanding bullets are required. I wonder if I can machine a smaller hole in the flat point and create some minimal expansion out of it?

Avoid solid bullets for any thin skinned game larger than the African Tiny Ten. You'll have to deal with one hell of a tracking job after taking body shots.

Just use a good cast lead flat point bullet and it would most likely be considered an expanding bullet. However, at the velocity you’re likely to get from your 45 I’d go with an XTP or similar bullet. Meat damage will still be minimal, but you’ll get better terminal effect. Those solids will just punch a caliber sized hole through your deer and you’ll likely be in for a longer tracking job than you will with a hollow point bullet. I’ve shot a number of deer with a 50 caliber muzzleloader with conical bullets, and it’s surprising how far they will run with a 50 caliber hole through them.

Barnes makes a .451 270gr soft point.

No wasted meat....

AimSmall said:

No wasted meat....
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Or a broken jaw or hole thru the windpipe.

I would be very leary of your choice of cartridge. Why not your 30-30 with some lever evolution from Hornady. Thru the ribs not the shoulders. I would rather ruin a little meat and go to the Grocery store and buy 10lbs of hamburger than risk losing an animal.

The key to no wasted meat is shot placement. Just behind the shoulders mid high and all you'll loose is some rib meat. A solid in that area and you'll never find that deer.

You are right, Utah and any western state requires expanding bullets. And I doubt that you creating a hollow point will qualify.

A TSX through the ribs will do the job well with minimal meat damage. As above, the risk of meat loss is from losing the animal, not a bit of blood-shot meat. And if you do ruin a shoulder, it’s not that much meat anyway and the dogs need to eat, too

Generally an all copper bullet will be longer than its equivalent weight in a jacketed or lead bullet. You didn't indicate what type of rifle your 45 Colt is. First consideration would have to be whether the chosen bullet will feed through the magazine and action (unless you're using a single shot). If you're using a 300g copper projectile it might not leave much room for powder or alternatively not cycle through the action.. I know you prefer an all copper bullet, but another option would be the Sierra 300g JSP Sports Master. Its not an all copper bullet but will meet the "expanding" bullet mandate. At the velocity you envision it will behave like a flat point solid. Good luck with your research and subsequent hunt. Look forward to your hunt report.

One other thing, you mentioned that the area that you plan to hunt is a lead free area. Utah does not have a lead free hunting area, they do however ask hunters to use lead free bullets in the southern area of the state.

You also mentioned large exit holes, I shot a coues white tail buck at 400 yards with a .25, 100 grain Barnes TTSX bullet and the exit hole was not much larger than a couple of inches.



If I was you I would just get some Barnes Vortex ammo for your 30-06 or any of your other rifles and go shoot a buck. That 45 Lc while it will do the job you are going to have to get within 100 yards, and I know that a buck that I shot with my 45 Lc out of a Ruger Blackhawk had a exit hole the size of a softball.

Pilgrim said:

I hadn't even thought about this. As it turns out expanding bullets are required. I wonder if I can machine a smaller hole in the flat point and create some minimal expansion out of it?

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Stick to the 7mm or .30’s and use a Barnes TTSX or LRX. The TTSX has become my first and go to choice for deer and pigs. Use the LRX if you want a higher bc.

Umm a solid for deer to save meat? Even if it was legal...... You said most shots are under 100 yds so an accurate shot shouldn't be a problem. Then just use a soft point and stay away from the shoulder! Behind the shoulder. Deer dies quickly without any drama and you get to eat your deer. Solids have their place, but this isn't it.
Bruce

+1 on a behind the shoulder shot. For inside of 100 yards, something in the 6.5mm category with a heavy for caliber barnes will be excellent.
I primarily use a 7mag, but shots inside of 100 are violent, a barnes bullet will help reduce that.

I’ve been surprised by the holes a .30-30 will make in an animal, while seemingly small in ft/lbs, it can be quite destructive.

I applaud your goal to minimize meat destruction. With a barnes you will likely have minimal or no fragmentation and no lead in the meat to worry about. I like a neck shot, but when the conditions are perfect.

This conversation touches on the difference between a high shoulder shot taken on African game to anchor them. Compare that to a behind the shoulder double lung shot to save meat. Both work.
Good luck on your hunt!

Something that I think that needs to be addresses as far as what some consider meat loss.

My mom was a expert in getting every last bit of edible meat off of a animal. She would spend a hour just cleaning up bloodshot and bruised meat so that we could eat it. that meat was mostly saved for her BBQ sauce that she would make up and then simmer for a few hours with the meat in it. She would also cook deer ribs in that same sauce. They came out of the pot with the meat falling off of the bones.
Both my dad and mom grew up in a time when you didn't waist anything if it could be helped, and they found ways to cook meat where you had no idea of where it came from or what it looked like before it hit the pot.

I have never hunted deer with a 45 Long Colt.. but I have hunted quite a few hogs and deer with large caliber, slow moving (relatively speaking, compared to most typical centerfire rifle cartridges used for deer like 270, 308, 30-06, etc), heavy projectiles..

My experience with 44 magnum, 45-70 trapdoor loads, 458 SOCOM, etc.. has been that all of those rounds when shot at reasonable distances (inside 100 yards) generally knock the snot out of deer, drop them very fast, and you can pretty much eat right up to the bullet hole.. you just dont see the same sort of tissue damage and blood shot meat hitting a deer with a 240gr 44 caliber projectile traveling at 1200 fps (pretty mild 44 mag load) that you see when you hit a deer with a 168gr 30 caliber projectile traveling at 2700 fps.. but the deer end up equally dead when using typical soft point or hollow point ammo in the 44 mag..

I cant imagine the 45 LC would be much different.. granted its slower.. most 250gr 45 LC loads I see are traveling around 1000 fps.. but, as long as you are keeping your shots to reasonable distances for that load, I dont see a deer going far.. and I dont see any load (soft point, hollow point, solid, or anything else doing a whole lot of tissue damage very far from the entry and exit holes..

If youre going 1200 fps with your 45 LC loads, there should be virtually no difference between your hits and what mild load 44 mag does.. and in my experience 44 mag hammers deer dead inside 100 and does very minimal tissue damage regardless of the projectile

mdwest said:

I have never hunted deer with a 45 Long Colt.. but I have hunted quite a few hogs and deer with large caliber, slow moving (relatively speaking, compared to most typical centerfire rifle cartridges used for deer like 270, 308, 30-06, etc), heavy projectiles..

My experience with 44 magnum, 45-70 trapdoor loads, 458 SOCOM, etc.. has been that all of those rounds when shot at reasonable distances (inside 100 yards) generally knock the snot out of deer, drop them very fast, and you can pretty much eat right up to the bullet hole.. you just dont see the same sort of tissue damage and blood shot meat hitting a deer with a 240gr 44 caliber projectile traveling at 1200 fps (pretty mild 44 mag load) that you see when you hit a deer with a 168gr 30 caliber projectile traveling at 2700 fps.. but the deer end up equally dead when using typical soft point or hollow point ammo in the 44 mag..

I cant imagine the 45 LC would be much different.. granted its slower.. most 250gr 45 LC loads I see are traveling around 1000 fps.. but, as long as you are keeping your shots to reasonable distances for that load, I dont see a deer going far.. and I dont see any load (soft point, hollow point, solid, or anything else doing a whole lot of tissue damage very far from the entry and exit holes..

If youre going 1200 fps with your 45 LC loads, there should be virtually no difference between your hits and what mild load 44 mag does.. and in my experience 44 mag hammers deer dead inside 100 and does very minimal tissue damage regardless of the projectile

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Midwest, this is exactly what I'm thinking. I've never used large caliber slow moving bullets to hunt with and so it is just theory for me, but I've been under the impression that there will be less meat damage this way.
For those suggesting the 30ish or smaller common hunting rifles, thank you for the suggestion but I don't really care whether or not I shoot a deer, its more avoit the experience, hence the unusual choice of rifle for deer. Ethics is paramount for me, I won't take a shot I'm not confident in.
For all who have suggested it, I've decided against the copper solids. I like barnes, but a quick scan of their website doesn't show much for .45 LC load data, I'm sure I could find other sources. I currently use a 250 gr hard cast flat nose bullet that is in the 1200 fps area and is quite accurate. I can hit a 10" gong at 200 yds 8 out of 10 times with iron sights, though I have to aim some 6 feet high--I won't be shooting deer at 200 yds.